Ok, so we had a regular, plain-ole, easy to talk about TL;DR planned for this week about life in Korea and our experiences and stuff. It was gonna be smooth and easy! Then, the whole scandal with T-ara erupted, and we received messages everywhere: on Twitter, Facebook, Tumblr, and our Email, asking about our thoughts on the matter.

So, we talked about it amongst ourselves for most of yesterday and half of today, and tried to figure out exactly what we wanted to say. We know, after all, that our opinions aren’t the most orthodox ones. We don’t feel outraged or sad or disappointed by the rumours, nor are we intrigued by the accusations or the juicy gossip or conspiracy theories (someone sent us an email suggesting that this was actually a plan by Korea’s president to distract people from some issues with Incheon Airport’s privatization). We’re indifferent to all of that. What we are interested in, though, is the dynamic between members of Kpop groups, and the operations of Kpop as a business, especially its marketing aspects. We’re more interested in the workings of the company and the final product in the music than in the idols and their personalities and personal lives. That’s the approach we’ve taken with our Kpop Music Mondays, and that’s the approach we’ve taken here with the T-ara controversy as well.

Hopefully we expressed ourselves semi-decently in our video. There are a few things we didn’t include, though.

We didn’t have the time to address the age ranking system in Korea and how it would affect the members in a kpop group. You’ve probably heard of kpop groups calling a member the “maknae” of the group. To those of us living outside of Korea, that might just means the newest or youngest member of a group. But in Korea, the maknae of a group or company has TONS of responsibilities to the older members. That includes being extremely respectful to the older members all the time, following orders without complaint (which could be costume choices, who gets the best seat in the car, first pick of anything), and they also have to do things for their “unnies” and “hyungs”. For example, maybe they’ll have to eat last, or hand out all the coffee, they might have to clean up after everyone eats in the dorms, or share a bathroom with the other youngest/newest member. There are tons of things the maknae has to do for their elders. Why? Because their elders were once maknae’s to someone else, whether in school, at a job, or at home so this is the time for them to be respected by someone younger then them. You’ve got to think of it like being in the army, where the maknae is the new recruit and everyone else is ranked higher. The reason we bring this up, is because Hwayoung was the maknae of the group (taking over Jiyeon’s position) and thus had to take over the submissive role of a maknae. As outsiders who aren’t in the group, there is no way of us knowing whether or not she was respectful enough to her elders, if awkward situations arose regarding her level of respect, or if perhaps her unnies were abusing their position as elders. I bring this up because I’ve seen a lot of pictures popping up on the internet claiming evidence of bullying because Hwayoung is getting last pick, or getting the worst seat, or being forced to eat something on a variety show. To me, that kind of treatment happens to the maknae in any kpop band and I just can’t see it as solid evidence against the other members of T-ara.

Another thing we wanted to talk about but quickly glossed over in the video about the stresses that arise from a hectic schedule: we talked briefly about how kpop idols go from place to place to place, do one thing, don’t rest, do another thing, don’t rest, travel somewhere else, barely rest in the car, do another thing, don’t rest, so on and so forth. In the video we mentioned how difficult it must be to be with each there all of the time, but we also think that it’s not just a matter of the amount of time they spend with each other, but it’s also a matter of them being overworked, sleep-deprived, and exhausted…AND THEN having to buddy up to each other.

Hell! Think of it this way: the two of us are one of the sappiest, lovey-doviest couples you’ve ever barfed rainbows over watching. When we’re deprived of sleep, though, and our schedules become too packed with lots of movies and other projects, we get snippy with each other when we’re planning and filming. It’s nothing bad, though, like fighting or yelling or anything like that, but we get short with each other, you know? And we’re married. I can’t imagine what it’s like for Kpop idols who work harder than us, for longer hours, with less food, AND THEY’RE NOT EVEN MARRIED TO EACH OTHER! We can resolve our disputes with snuggles and kisses. How do kpop idols resolve their disputes?

Another thing we glossed over: let’s look at T-ara as a group. They’re, what, seven members, right? Seven pretty, highly driven and motivated girls, plopped together for an infinite amount of time, who are viewed by the public in very superficial terms…and they’re all between 18-26. How about the fact that GIRLS ARE CATTY!* There’s bound to be cat fights happening all the time! We know the majority of our demographic is female: you know, you MUST have experienced being in large groups of girls and how not-so-smoothly that often flows, right? And this isn’t for just T-ara alone. We often wonder what are Girls’ Generation like with 9 members. How about After School? GOD DON’T MAKE ME THINK ABOUT AKB48!!!

Altogether, put a bunch of young girls together in a high stress scenario with little rest, a broken leg, and the constant need to put their best faces forward: there’s BOUND to be tension and eruptions. We’re not condoning anyone’s actions within the group, primarily because we will never know what actually happened between them (and news sites are more interested in stirring things up rather than reporting on news), so we won’t say who’s right and who’s wrong. What we will say, though, is that we suspect every band is going through their own crap, and they’re not skipping around with sunshine and lollipops everywhere.

We really hope that people don’t take this as a statement that we hate Kpop or that we’re saying bad things about Kpop with this video and post. Not at all. What we don’t like ABOUT Kpop, though, is the idolatry that goes on, how fans get so caught up in the lives of artists, and forget about the music itself. Whenever we meet a Kpop idol we always get comments like “how did you not faint or scream when you met blah blah” but to us, they’re just normal people. The two of us here at Eat Your Kimchi don’t give a burning crap about the lives of idols, how dreamy they are, how they act on TV shows, or anything like that. We barely even know the members names most of the time, and it shouldn’t matter if we know their names or not. What we care about is music. We want to talk about kpop not as fans who worship the idols, but as people who appreciate the music. You know what we’re saying?



This is Martina, who wrote this blog post, and I understand that some people have completely misunderstood and been deeply offended that I said “girls are catty”. I clearly have poorly worded this and have made people think that I’m making a generalization about all women, and I’m sorry that it came across that way.

So let me further attempt to express my opinion somewhat clearly: In my personal experience of the world, which differs from your personal experience, I think that girls, BUT NOT ALL GIRLS, tend to be more catty than guys. However, guys can also be catty, but in my personal experience, I found that my male friends were much much less catty. My definition of “catty,” which might differ from yours, is when people create fights over trivial topics due to jealously. Examples of what I think are catty behaviours: saying mean comments about someone’s looks, being jealous about the attention someone is getting, purposely lying to someone to make the other person look bad. I absolutely did not mean that T-ara broke up due to the sole fact that they are female.

It was not my intention to offend anyone, and I’m honestly sorry that I did, but now I’m concerned that I’ve doubly offended you in the explanation of what I meant, so…I’m not sure what else I can do now apart from build that igloo I talked about in the video.

  1. Ash3070

    In case you think it’s weird that I’m commenting on such an old video, I’m on an S&M maraton >.< But I was just wondering, if the only exception you'll make to your aforementioned rule is Chris Brown, are T-ARA now also in your bad books having worked with him? x x x

  2. This video gave me a whole new perspective of Kpop idols/singers to reconsider. I don’t particularly hate or dislike any group like for any superficial reasons spread around by the media, but I never had an upfront empathy for them like this either. I’ll make sure to keep an open mind next time another ‘scandal’ or ‘report’ is brought to my attention, especially to may favorite/bias group haha. P.S. I feel a little embarassed for getting sucked into the vacuum of fangirldom, but I don’t regret uberly loving my favorite group *ahem*DBSK/Homin/JYJ*ahem *ahem*Changmin*ahem* XD XD!

  3. kpoplatinlover

    You guys couldn’t have explained it better

  4. i agree with every single word in this article. i came to my senses when DBSG broke up … i was so blind to the kpop industry until that happening…

  5. Hi, Simon and Martina. What do you think about the child labor in music industry? I mean, we always speak about the child labor in the textile industry or in the mines, but we never speak about their work in the entertainment business that, I think is as the same level as the works I’ve told before.

  6. There’s 3 sides to every story. Yours, mine and the truth. You guys did a great job explaining the whole kpop situation. :)

  7. I agree. I’m not one to idolize, because people are people. They make mistake, the have bad days, but they learn from them (hopefully). When I see a famous person, I don’t fangirl, because if I was in that position, I would want to be treated like a normal person. Isn’t that what all people want?

  8. I am seriously crushed though , that T-Ara is gone now, regardless of the situation @_@  You know? I mean, T-Ara was one of the groups to get me into K-Pop and I’ve always stayed in tune for all their latest hits and yeah :< 

  9. I was curious as to what jobs are available for foreigners besides teaching English. What about if they have a Master’s or Doctorate in a field (such as medicine or any other specialized field)? And if they’re fluent (or at least semi-fluent) in Korean? Thanks!

  10. I basically agree on this article, like any reasonable human being, I suppose. There is a concept, however, that I can’t endorse: let’s care only about the music. I know you’re only trying to be neutral because of the lack of information but, sorry guys, I can’t do that. I don’t care about the gossip but I do care about these girls as persons. I like K-Pop, but there are some disturbing issues that I can’t forget. Exploitation and overwork are among these. We all know that the distance between Gangnam style and Foxconn style is thin. This is not the moment to turn the head saying “who gives  a damn about their lives, DJ turn the volume up”. Yes, the stress can easily make people fight, but today Soyeon risked her life while running between schedules. Let’s use the wide audience of this site to say stop to this crap!

  11. wow…idk why you had to apologize martina…people should understand that you weren’t making any generalization about women…jeez people! way to assume the worst about martina!! next thing you know EYK will be a hot topic because touchy people just focus on that one comment martina made about women…and even if martina did believe that all women are catty, who cares! it’s just her opinion….it’s not going to be life-changing to any of us!…wtf..>.> 

  12. to S&M (simon and martina) I have a really good question that’s similar to what many have made, I am aware that you have made a video where u talk about some of the koreans reaction to american videos and I’m preety sure that some have asked you what are the odds for a nonkorean to make it as an Idol in the kpop industry. but my question to you is, whats the status with Nicky Minaj and what are the odds for someone (a female to be precise) with the same mean swag making it in korea? even if the words aren’t as offensive?

  13. I was just wondering what happens in korea when people fight? What happens if someone slaps someone? What gets you jail time? And how does that work?

  14. i wonder how many takes it took not to laugh their asses off doing “eat your kimchi style” lol

  15. It’s sooooo hot & controversial issue we mention!!! I think no one can b sure to speak it out whos right or wrong. All we’r able to do is just not being one of them talking about it. just watch it whats going on later. :D

  16. My question is: How did Spudgy and Dr. Meemersworth get their names? They’re so unique and adorable!

  17. I would really like to know about the ‘Rock Scene’ in Korea. DO they have good rock bands? How big a crowd do they pull? And do foriegn bands like Metallica / Iron Maiden, etc perform in Korea?

  18. How big is the average Korean flat? And how much does it cost? Is it cheaper to live in Korea compared to Canada?

  19. I was curious as to your opinions on this. I know that you guys were teachers and did you ever have to witness the teachers hitting students? This video has been passed around a lot and all of the people i know who have seen this are outraged that adults would beat children like this. Especially ones who are supposed to be trusted as a teacher.


  20. Simon and Martina i don’t know if this was asked before, but what is your opinion about fans that exagerate (i think they are called saesang fans), and what is your opinion when idols get annoyed/angry at them ?

  21. Martina, no need to apologize AT ALL. I am not offended in the least! I do also agree that women are much more catty than men, because that is also my personal experience. Men CAN certainly be catty, but not to the same degree as women. Anyway, thanks for speaking out! Don’t apologize for it! <3 you!

  22. Simon, Martina; what are your thoughts upon the DONG BANG SHIN KI??

  23. I will admit that sometimes, I think you guys are just a wee bit harsh about some of your music video critiques, but then I watch videos like this and it reminds me why I am going to buy an EatYourKimchi shirt. Thank you guys for being so logical, it is really refreshing to hear such common sense. I agree with everything you pointed out, including the blurb about Chris Brown.

  24. Simon and Martina! How do Koreans view men with facial hair? Considering that Korean men seem to often be very clean cut, is facial hair present in Korea and how is it viewed in Korean society?

  25. Honestly, the victim in this ‘case’ isn’t just Hwayoung or T-ARA, it’s both of them. We really have no freaking idea what these guys are actually like behind closed doors, and I think this is something kpop fans forget too often, and how could they not? That’s the whole point of kpop, to interact and to believe that you know your idols on a personal level. That’s why these issues get blown up bigger and bigger until they explode and cause damage to all parties.

  26. I was so addicted to kpop that I started to fail school and my parents took away my computer for a month and I thought I would die without it but i lived and I learned that I don’t need to get so obsessed over my bias or idols because I can live without them and it wont kill me.

  27. I have the exact same view on kpop and all musicians! My friends and others always care so much about what members are like and what they do, think, wear, say but personally I couldn’t care less. I’m only really interested in the music :)

  28. But Shinee gets along well…and most of the groups too. I think T-ara members are just a little jealous of each other or hwayoung really is difficult to get with but i think the break-up is really a little too over the fence. they auditioned, they wanted to get in they got in and boom! they know it’s their responsibility to be with each other and perform together. it’s also their responsibility to forgive each other. They worked hard for so much and they just kick hwayoung out…very unfair. hwayoung must feel bad because together they conquered the world and then she gets kicked out because of a trivial matter. i don’t know what happened but i don’t like it.

  29. I think you addressed this issue quite well, and I agreed with everything you stated. To be honest I didn’t even know about this until your video, but either way you broke it down really well. What I really wanted to comment on though was the following two items, 1- you had me rolling with the musical farts. LIke literally rolling in my bed with my sore stomach muscles and all, thanks for that. 2- Martina you looked so adorable in this video. Your style is always cute and sweet and fun loving and I am sure you hear that a lot but it makes me happy to see.

  30. The thing is, I never see Dongho do any of those maknae stuff.
    I don’t know if that’s because the hyung’s are nice, or he just has an attitude you don’t want to touch. :)

  31. iv been telling people that there just people that work for a company since i found k-pop no noe belives me though

  32. lol speaking of farts, i literally just saw this right before watching ur tldr.

  33. Thank goodness for others who think rationally. Sometimes it really seems like a miracle to me.

  34. LOL people will always be offended by something or another. Love the vid & absolutely love the fart song hahahaha………
    People just need to realise that they are not always seeing the whole true picture. Don’t just assume based on their own assumption.

  35. “someone sent us an email suggesting that this was actually a plan by
    Korea’s president to distract people from some issues with Incheon
    Airport’s privatization”
    This is soooooo entertaining lol What an interesting guess……

  36. You guys, I have respect for you. You really looked like you had a difficult time filming it. You were definitely talking slower than usual. But your message came across clearly. I agree 100%. Sometimes people forget that idols, and celebrities or public figures, are human just like the rest of us. They have bad days, get angry, experience moments where they just want to rip people’s heads off. Yes, it is their jobs to maintain a certain “perfect” public image, but they shouldn’t be witch hunted if they happen to slip and fall.

    It’s sad that a majority of idol life is mostly about their personalities and not their actual music. Netizens, or onlookers as a whole, feel like they have this right to scrutinize idols in every which way they want. Which they don’t. And it’s just sad how the idols and their companies can’t help but be bullied by these netizens and their awful comments. If you ask me, the real bullies here are netizens themselves.

  37. Hey Simon and Martina, I recently started my freshman year of university and I am about 3 hours from my hometown, but it feels like a country’s width away. Both me and my roommate are home sick. How did both of you react to the absence of you parents and how did you overcome the sad feelings when you went to college and moved to Korea?

  38. I just loved Martina’s gesture when she said: “well, not SLEEPING together” LOL

  39. This My MOST FAVORITE TL;DR EVER! I’ve been waiting to hear these words said by someone (anyone!) SO badly. It couldn’t have been said any better. You definitely didn’t offend me. Even if i didn’t agree (but i do agree), there is no reason why i should get offended because it’s your opinion. If you wanna say that idols have awesome farts, go ahead!

  40. Just saw your edit, Martina.
    You have my support. I’m afraid some people just don’t understand poetic license or language usage such as generalisation anymore.

    In saying that, Korean guys are incredibly good looking.

  41. I love the two of you. You made clear, concise, and logical points about natural human interactions, farted to kpop songs, and were not afraid to say that Chris Brown is an ass and should be treated as such for the rest of his life. Cheers to you S & M.

  42. IMO, T-ara should be disbanded (dismembered? lols) because they are unprofessional. I’m sure there are lots of band mates that don’t get along but the way some of the girls behave publicly is really shameful. They hurt one girls image on stage and they hurt themselves. When you watch the youtube movies- their bullying is so bold. It’s not right.

    But I blame the management company. They didn’t deal properly with two major CoEd School scandals (Kangho and then Soomi). And as much as I dislike SME, I’m sure Papa SM wouldn’t tolerate a second of that nonsense. CCM, get your house in order.

  43. Simon can plz you do martinas makeup?! :P

  44. Hooray! SANITY!

  45. Martina, it doesn’t need to explain nothing… afterall T-ara is catty… Bo peep, bo peep, bo peep, boooo =^ㅅ^=

  46. Haii~~I was wondering if u guise watched the Canadian team play in the Olympics this year…? If u guise did, what do u think about it? Do u guise have any messages for our athletes? As a fellow Canadian, I hope u guise can help boost the team spirit with your encouraging-ness!! Thanks <3

  47. Haii~~I was wondering if u guise were watching the Canadian team in the Olympics this year. If I guise did, what do u think of it so far and if u have any messages for them??

  48. I some time wish some people in Korea think like you guys. I just hate it how they attack one or more in the kpop group to blame them for the other person problems. I agreed with you guys a 100% there human just like us that make mistakes all the time. That’s why a lot of kpop stars commit suicide which is sad. We should just let it go and just hope the best for the all the girls and for every kpop group that is going through the same thing. Oh you guys know about AKB48 cool. Now that’s a huge girl group o.0.

  49. To be completely honest, I didn’t even know about any of this until you announced what your next TL:DR was going to be.

    I agree: We don’t know what really happened and we never will.

    . . . . It does suck that all of this was made public, though. (Only because that leaves it open for theories and rumors.)

  50. I agree with you guys , we don’t know the truth and never will.

  51. I think the problem is that variety shows gives us tidbits of information about idols and we think that how the idols act in those shows are actually their real personalities but almost 90% of these shows are scripted and these idols are only doing what they were told to do in front of the camera. Many fans just begin building this extremely scary and idealized person in their head whom they believe is their idol but we actually know NOTHING about what those idols actually are like off camera or behind closed doors (like what Simon and Martina said). The public is usually so shocked when something like the T-ara controversy is leaked and we fail to see that they are humans too like us. How they act is usually how people around us act and they aren’t some “higher” beings. They just have talent who they decided to share with the world. I feel like I’m going off topic so I’ll cut it short now but what I’m trying to say is that these Kpop idols are being harassed by what the public thinks should be their personality but no one actually knows how they really are unless you are them or you know them.

  52. I think you both handled that conversation great. If anyone gets upset or offended by any of that, they need to take a chill pill. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and should not be persecuted because of what they think. I totally agree with everything you said in this video.

  53. here’s a question.
    how serious is the whole ‘fandom’ thing in korea?? its pretty serious in some countries…so i was just wondering about it and how it works in south korea?
    like the ELFs, SONES, VIPs etc

  54. I agree that all the members are human beings who deal with stress situations in their daily lives. They might not like everyone in the group. As a result, this leads to conflicts and miscommunications. However, I don’t agree with you that being in an idol group is like work or school. Yes, it is their job to be happy together and to get along in front of the camera. Yet they must live together all day long for twenty four hours seven days a week. At least when you have conflicts with your coworkers or classmates, you can still avoid them at your own home. You still have a peace of mind. Even if Hwayoung was not bullied physically, emotionally, or psychologically and yet she did not get along with some of the members, it was hard for her to live with people who were not very friendly. Moreover, she felt isolated at her own home. How does it feel if you are forced to live with your most disliked coworkers/classmates under the same roof? It does not feel very good, putting you in a very stressful environment. Unlike regular people, home was not a sanctuary for Hwayoung.

  55. I just wanted to put out another “THANK YOU” for this post AND video, clarification or not. Let’s face it : while one may not be able to say “GIRLS ARE CATTY” as a general rule… THERE ARE TONS OF CATTY GIRLS IN THE WORLD :) . TONS of them.

    I’m a girl, and even *I* recognize this. I’m not particularly catty myself because it would be quite hypocritical (you know, comments about looks and stuff) and it would also probably bite me in the ass later, but I completely understand the video.

    And guess what ? You guys are SO AWESOME that for some reason, when Psy’s “Gangnam style” got out and you reviewed it, I was tempted to watch the video. And I did. Me, the anti-YG person. And guess what ?

    I enjoyed it O_O . Me. Who was resisting resisting resisting as much as I could. That’s how powerful you are, hahahahaha XD !

    (And providing me with good laughs with the “fart (f-art? O.o) incident” at the end of the super serious un-EYK like talk X”D )

  57. very good video, your guys’ maturity was awesome, bravo for this

  58. I some time wish some people in Korea think like you guys. I just hate it how they attack one or more in the kpop group to blame them for the other person problems. I agreed with you guys a 100% there human just like us that make mistakes all the time. That’s why a lot of kpop stars commit suicide which is sad. We should just let it go and just hope the best for the all the girls and for every kpop group that is going through the same thing. Oh you guys know about AKB48 cool. Now that’s a huge girl group o.0.

  59. BRAVO!!!

    One more detail nobody is mentioning:
    Hwayoung has a twin sister. One of the disadvantages of twin closeness is that the closeness may make twins more conservative when socializing with others since twins tend to form their own communicative team, with their own language. They may then be very shy when they have to communicate individually with others.

    Sometimes what is interpreted as being outcast, it may simply be Hwayoung’s social skills.

  60. Gonna put my question first, so it doesn’t get buried (and I’m a new viewer, so sorry if this has been covered already, slowly working my way through all the videos): What kind of subjects do Korean students study in high school? What exactly is an arts high school? Do places like that in Dream High even exist? (That’s one question, I swear).

    Hmmm, I’m a girl and I didn’t find the comment about cattiness offensive at all; I work in a predominantly female workplace and I’ve found it to be rather true (not generalizing, just making a personal observation). And I admit, I can be catty at times, and I think I have more catty moments than my male peers…so maybe that’s why I wasn’t angered by the remark.

    Anyhow, I saw this story erupting and thought many of the same things that were brought up in the video. I mean, even family members with shared DNA fight; put people who aren’t even distantly related and all super-driven together and expect them to get along perfectly 100% of the time? That’s just a fantasy. I mean, even bands that seemingly get along well in public, even with those I can detect moments where it’s clear one or more members needs time off from the others.

    Let’s take my fave band: MBLAQ. On camera, I’d say these 5 guys are as close as brothers, and as an observer, I believe I can feel their love and affection for each other. However, they can be downright cruel to each other – EVEN ON CAMERA – and they do indeed bully each other; yes, it may be in the realm of harmless teasing, but that kinda stuff builds up. One day, it’s all fun and games; next day, BOOM, Joon’s looking like the world is collapsing around him or Mir’s looking like a kicked puppy. So, yeah, even in seemingly close groups, these fractures exist. I accept that, and as a fan, I say, if it doesn’t affect their work, I let it go.

  61. I have a question for next week’s TD;DR.. South Korea seems to be doing fairly well in this year’s Olympics (ranked 3rd as of this post) so I’m curious as to a) if you guys are watching and more importantly b) if you are watching it in public places with friends/neighbours, and how are they watching/celebrating? Thanks ^_^

  62. How is your Korean now? Can you make sentences, write with hangul and read? What are the difficulties you encountered while learning that language?

  63. All that so-called ‘evidence’ are actually clips and screencaps taken out of context and conveniently edited in a way to make them look bad (as this person has been pointing out here: http://hyotheleader.tumblr.com/). Then, reporters with no journalistic credibility whatsoever publish them as facts, just to have more hits on their sites, and people who don’t know anything about the group eat it up like fools. This kind of reminds me of the witch hunt against Tablo a couple years ago, they are the ones who are blatantly being bullies. I won’t say they weren’t internal problems in the group because like you said, in every human relationship there’s bound to be conflict and they’re no angels, but people are throwing the word ‘bully’ really carelessly while making up evidence. They’re just desperate to prove their point, seeing what they want to see and don’t realize they’re being played by the media. Add to that the really crappy agency they’re in (CCM) which must have THE worst PR out of all the agencies out there, and as a result you have this epically blown out of proportion drama.

  64. I just knew the T-ara issues yet dont care about them but because of this issue Martina and Simon’s thoughts about it, It made me realize my total obsession of K-pop. If i could meet this people and have a conversation with them about k-pop industry it would be a prestige. One word i could tell to Martina and Simon… A-M-A-Z-I-N-G…

  65. I gotta say, I think you guys hit it right on the nail! We DON’T know what is going on. And we never will. Chances are both parties are in the wrong. That is usually what happens.

    And people need to RELAX about famous people. I work at a restaurant that has many pro-athletes that come in. Now, I personally don’t care much about sports. Yes, I do like some teams, some sports, but I don’t pay attention to the details.

    Point being some member of a hockey team came into the store got a drink and the girl I was working with pointed out how he looked like a hockey player. Proceeded to search who he was, and got giddy once she matched the picture up with the face. It is just weird to see steps go backwards (from knowing the celeb on TV, seeing them, go crazy; rather than seeing the person, look up who they are, THEN go crazy)

    I guess I can keep such a level head because of two reasons. One I grew up with a famous person in my town who was level headed. I grew up in the same town as Bruce Springsteen. Which was good because he just walked around town like a normal person. I don’t know him personally, but just standing behind him in Starbucks and being more concerned about your Soy Latte keeps you level headed about celebs.

    And the second reason is because I worked briefly in TV. I was in a few commercials for FOX. Knowing HOW we picked some people for TV spots was- well crazy. I kid you not when I say I would hear my boss ask his wife to be in ads, and other TV spots because it was just easier than looking for people. It is sort of like what Simon and Martina say about “why is this person famous?” on a much smaller scale. A lot of it is chance mixed with talent. I had the talent to work in TV, but I just happened to work for the department that filmed promos.

  66. I just feel like crying hwayoung’s rap is the best part in day by day.yeah kpop groups have arguments and a lot of rumors butt the companies don’t take it this far it’s just a misunderstanding THE COMPANY can’t see

  67. Great response. I really can’t understand how people go so far to insult T-ara with no solid evidence to justify it when this sort of behaviour can lead to devastating consequences. This could seriously have affect on everyone’s mental well-being and the fact that I once got a reply basically saying “Good, the less members the better” has me severely worried.

    As for Tl;dr: How would you say foreigners are portrayed on Korean television? I recall a brief talk from you guys during the “blackface” incident and there was that outrageous MBC documentary, but it can’t be all bad.

  68. I think it’s really difficult when one already established group gets a new member, like in this case. As you said they have to learn first how to survive in the Kpop world and second how to get along together so the band can survive too. I mean if they’re not friends or at lest in the same kind of relationship the band is bound to break up and soon.
    And when all of this is more or less done and suddenly a new member comes he/ she have to do it alone, not always with the help of the others. It’s really difficult, I remember Kyuhyun from Suju and Seunghyun from FT island talking about it. Let’s not talk about how the fans react or how the old members can get protective with their positions and exclude the newby. It’s always hard to be the new kid after all.
    So yeah I think this is the problem with T-ara. I personally won’t like it if my favorite group gets another member either. And I’m just a person who listens to them, how the members or the new guy feel?
    I’m not saying she was bullied or was difficult to work with. I’m just stating that probably she just couldn’t join the group properly.

  69. Thanks for reminding me why I love SoShi so much :)

  70. JESUS, I THOUGHT THAT THE ACTUAL BAND BROKE UP. AHHH, okay back to the top to read.^^

  71. People need to stop getting so butt hurt over every little thing any random person says.

    Honestly, how do they survive in this world?

    Simon and Martina, I hope you guys don’t get discouraged.

  72. Excellent take on the whole issue. It bewilders me, how people are just being swept by the reports and rumours, taking sides without knowing actually what went on and is going on. (You know how we always talk about kpop bias, and I am surprised fans of the other members turn against their biases so quickly.)

    And indeed, people forget that kpop idols, or any idol out there in fact, are humans. A kpop band is like a mini society, some click, some don’t, and every one has a different standing in this “mini society”.

    It’s really disappointing how their company has chosen to handle everything, from when the problem first started, to how everything exploded and now continue being a crazy PR mess. That’s the worst thing in this whole drama-rama.

    T-ara has really great music and it would be such a waste for them to disband just like this.

  73. I’m so happy you aren’t like some other people that pick sides in this fight. I myself found out about all this T-ara stuff a few days ago and I was surprised how people choose sides so quickly and made such hateful comments, when they don’t even know what really happened.
    I’m not really interested in girl groups when it comes to k-pop, because I just can’t listen to them for a long period of time without a headache. (I have a really sensitive sense of smell and hearing and because of that I get migraines all the time. Too much perfume on a person or high pitched voices all around me and I’m not able to move because my head is ready to explode or I will barf all over things till I fall asleep.<- I'm serious, first time this happened I was 8 and thought I will die, since then my teacher didn't wear any perfume and I was seated by the window.) So I can't really tell what I think of T-ara as a group at all, because I don't know them and I can't even name a song by them, that's how good I know girl groups.
    But what I can tell is, yes it really is hard to live with a bunch of girls (I'm a girl myself, just to make it clear) in one room for a long period of time and trying to get along(Not saying that guys don't have any problems when in such situations). I used to dance (like tango, quickstep, rumba, pasadoble and such dances) and we had a training camp, where we needed to live in dorms for almost a month. It was hard, we woke up at 5:30am and went to bed at around 11pm and had a 30 minute break in the middle of the day, after lunch. And all the time I spent there I was constantly together with 5 girls I shared my dorm room with. I can't say that I didn't like them, but after the camp I started to look at them in another light. Like one girl was talking behind the back of the others and accusing them without knowing the details herself (we had a stealing incident), so I told the others that they might want to talk with the girl, before she goes to the trainer and gets them in trouble(I didn't even tell them what she has said, just that they might want to talk to her). Next thing I know, after a while I'm treated like a traitor by the girls that were accused, because I told them IN DETAIL what the first girl has said and they are now best of friends, so I in a way betrayed them too, go figure. I don't even want to think of the scenery that might have happened if we had the whole Korean age thing going on or if we had the public eye to worry about.
    So yeah, living with strangers 24/7 with not enough rest and trying to get along is really hard. And I agree with you Martina, guys aren't so catty as girls, that is one of the reasons I had more guy friends then girl friends in school. xD
    I mean, if girls fight it's usually like "Lets all ignore her and later on call her names", but when guys fight they punch each other in the face and in the end have a man hug and go get a drink together (I have actually witnessed this).
    I'm sad that because of media people are picking sides and what not, maybe if this wouldn't have gone in public it wouldn't be so messy.
    Hope you won't get bashed too much about saying your opinion and that some people will actually listen to what you said and understand that idols are people too, because some just treat their stars like they are gods and then get disappointed when they show their human side.

  74. While I agree that we shouldn’t take sides because we don’t know the truth and it is just a fact of life that there will be conflict when you’re with people 24/7. IF this was a case of oen sided bullying then that’s not really the same as “not getting along” and it should be condemned in the public eye since bullying is a HUGE issue in society and whether they like it or not kpop idols are essentially role models in society, which is why we have so much respect for them. However since we don’t know the full story I personally believe we shoudl continue to support both T-ara and Hwayoung, especially since T-ara’s music is so darn good!!!!

  75. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me what that song is at 2.52 when Martina starts air drumming. Only my boyfriend and I are talking about how it’s similar to a song he wrote blah blah and I just wanted to know what it’s called :] xxx

  76. hmm, in this case I don’t really agree with you in some points….of course I don’t know what really happened to T-ara either, but I think there is a big difference between little fights in the group or the maknae role and bullying. maybe T-ara are just usual sometimes bitchy girls and didn’t get along – in that case everything you’re saying is right -, but if they really were bullying hwayoung, it’s a whole different story to me.
    and another thing I think different about: I do care about idol’s personal life. at least up to a certain degree. I don’t need to know everything they’re doing, but in my opinion they are rolemodels in some way and should therefore be careful of they’re behaviour. If I get the feeling, that for example a celebrity seems to spend their whole money on party and drugs and luxurious things (like many western stars *cough*), I don’t want to support this kind of lifestyle with even a cent of my own money.
    most of the kpop-idols seem to be very hardworking people who put a lot of effort into what they’re doing, so I feel comfortable spending a little money on them. ^^;

    • I agree, both on the bullying vs. normal fights and the “I wouldn’t spend a cent on celebs who act like assholes” (though in my case I would worry less about wasting money on hedonistic activities and more for stuff like hate speech, violent behaviour, rape, murder…). Actually, I think it’s wrong to dismiss T-ara’s behaviours as just normal parts of petty bandmate conflicts, and I don’t need biased fan-accounts to believe so. The only materials I trust in this whole affair are T-ara’s Twitter messages, because seriously, what are the odds of someone simultaneously hacking multiple Twitter accounts around the time of Hwayoung’s tweet? Well, as I read that stuff the first time I remember thinking “Wow, writing passive-aggressive comments for the whole internet to see in reply to your fellow group member’s neutral post? Acting all together to have the upper hand? And e-hi5′ing each other as if you were heroines for doing all this? Girls, that is ugly”. Those tweets might not be evidence for actual bullying, however the whole thing sure smells like potentially career-hurting public shaming (little did they know that those comments would’ve involved the entire group in a scandal, instead of just putting the maknae in a bad light) and in general lack of professionalism. And yes, I don’t particularly like the idea of financially supporting an idol, thus someone created for young people to look up to, if evidence suggests that she/he’s the kind of inconsiderate, venomous person who might end up ruining someone’s life one day. I can always listen to songs on YT for free, if the music’s worth it.
      I was also a bit disappointed by the fact that S&M didn’t mention neither how KKS’s uber-exploitative, manipulative and overall creepy managment style might be the main reason major conflicts might have arised within T-ara, nor the fact that CCM’s poor handling of PR is making the situation much worse than it would initially have been.

  77. It makes me deeply sad when a woman talks about women like that. The “a bunch of girls together is like a bag full of cats” idea is a really low concept to put out there of the gender that includes you, Martina. Girls can be bitchie as boy can bullie and be violent and on and on. Is a short-minded point of view that impoverishes our already poor condition in the world. We, more than anyone, have to take care of each other. Let’s!

  78. I love the way you guys addressed this drama. When I received an email alert about the video, I cringed a little when I saw the title but you approached the topic with a good intentions. Thank you very much for this.
    Just to add on, this kind of thing has happen with two groups I am familiar with from the States and England (Original Destiny’s Child and original Sugababes). Those two groups were people who met at school or grew up together. It goes to show you whether you formed a group by yourself or a company put you together it isn’t easy working in a group.

  79. You didn’t offend me Martine…girls are catty, especially the girls at my school -_-;

  80. Thank you! I was talking about this with some of my friends and I said that I wouldn’t blame them and that I’d keep listening to their music as long as they keep making awesome music. One of my friends accused me of condoning bullying but as you said, we don’t have all the facts and we probably never will. I do get caught up in idols’ lives occasionally, although I try not to get too obsessive, but to me, when it comes down to it, they’re real people and they’re allowed to not be perfect and be whoever they want to be. It’s just a shame that the media and fans love to blow things so out of proportion.
    In regards to what you said about it being hard to get along with everyone, maybe I’m just lucky, but I’ve met very few people who I’ve genuinely disliked in my life and I have met numerous people who I would consider good friends.
    Also, I’m glad for what you added about Chris Brown because I was about to come down and comment that some actions cannot be condoned or excused. So basically, everything you said in this video was true and awesome.

  81. and yet martina was saying the other day that bang yongguk is dreamy (x hehe. i understand. we all have that little fangirl within us somewhere. but anyway, you guys never fail to intrigue/amaze/have me nodding in agreement with your opinions

  82. hwayoung is older then jiyeon.

  83. Dear Simon and Martina, how are other races view/treated in Korea? Since Koreans haven’t had much exposure to other races is it prejudice or more like curiousity? Lastly, how does the media portray other races?

    For example do they expect all African-Americans to be like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlWavGDgwlA

  84. Well, U-Kiss solves their disputes with ”
    snuggles and kisses.” I’d be lying if I said I wish I was joking but I’m not. Hahaha by the way this is something their darlin’ leader has said himself.

    Anyway, your point of view isn’t lost on me. I was asked by a friend which side I toke but I was troubled. Being someone who at one point was bullied I felt myself feeling very sympathetic towards Hwayoung. With all these evidences started coming out I was even more swayed to her side. Some things were blown out of proportion but still I understood the point.
    But I thought about it harder. Let’s take Infinite for example. They are certainly a playful bunch but I’m sure they’ve had their disputes. If you watch any of the series shows they take part of you’d notice sometimes the members gang up on one member. More often than not it’s Sunggyu, their leader. How do we know if it’s all in good fun of making jokes about their oldest member? It’s true the members do this much more publicly so it doesn’t seem like secret. Hidden in plain sight comes to mind. For the record I don’t believe Sunggyu is bullied by his members.I think it’s his grandpa image they are trying to enforce.
    My point is that any of these incidents could be singled out, taken out of context and called bullying.
    I hate to bring another group into this but I can only think of this way to show my point.
    I’m not saying they didn’t bully her but I’m also not saying I’m convinced it’s as severe as the public keeps pushing.

  85. Yess!!! so true! if people asked me why did you like kpop I’d say the music is good and catchy and super fun! I follow a certain group which I like only when they are making a single or a comeback or anything music related. So if they decided to act,then I’d probably check it or if it suck it suck….If theres a ton of picture editorials on a certain magazine and how they look like a goddess or what not I just don’t see the it…btw I respect you both Simon and Martina….may your heads are always clear from prejudice!

  86. KATHyphenTUN

    Thank You for saying this!! this is really what fans need to hear!! I always feel like fans just take things too far sometimes and they need to learn to back off!

  87. lol! I love the awkward turtle!

  88. Wow this is the first time ive actually seen you guys get serious about something. I never thought to factor in the work a maknae has to put in. I do however believe some of the older members of T-ara abused it.

  89. I loved that last paragraph of your written post. Why people get so ( well lets be really blunt) psycho over bands, I’ll never know. “Kpop Idols” are just people and I think people forget that. Maybe they are people that have vocal talent, dancing skills, visually pleasing, and/or well groomed by agencies but none the less they are still people. I really appreciate their effort and talent but I would never start a fight over it or be an over zealous fanatic and dwell on it. ON anther note, I really agree with you on the CB ( I refuse to say his name because it would bring attention to is trifling a$$) topic and I feel that he should never be able to make money in the music industry again.

    I’m done.YAY!!!

  90. Well done! I completely agree with you guys! Even SHINee admit that in their early years Minho and Key didn’t get along at all. These things happen, and I think it would be a whole lot easier for everyone involved if people didn’t expect idols to be perfect.

  91. Hi Simon and Martina, it’s not always true that maknaes do all those stuffs you mentioned in your comment. For example, wonder girls leader does cooking and cleaning up. Not the maknae. It depends on the people themselves. Everyone is please then it’s fine. Love and respect is more important. It’s not about the age.

  92. Me personally I was really upset about the T-ara conspiracies rumors about them bullying Hwayoung. I was so upset by the thought of bad play that I even started to hate the rest of T-ara but after watching your video, I realize you’re right… I have no right to hate completely on T-ara, because I don’t know what happened, I mean I’m not in their group.
    You know this is what I love about you guys, you guys are hilarious but you are also informative and usually when you watch videos talking about conspiracies you’d hear alot of hate and clear bias but you guys were respectful to all the parties in this situation and you showed no bias at all.
    You guys are awesome and well awesome! :) Please continue to make more awesome videos :).

  93. I used to love Chris Brown until tht beating incident happened but R. Kelly is ALOOOTTTT worsee in my opinion

  94. My question is what do you guys think about kpop fan service? For me it is wrong and disturbing.

  95. Thank GOD for neutrality! I was thinking about the same thoughts, but I felt like I was the only one that could sympathize all of the T-ara members, including Hwayoung.

  96. Of course they are going to argue or be snippy with each other. Lee HongKi even admitted on a show that they have come to blows. That’s not necessarily bad. Even family fights. Getting it out in the open and resolved so that you can continue to work live & play together.

  97. Was I the only one enjoying the over-reaction of the fans? :P I laughed so hard at so many of the comments.

  98. And don’t forget – Kim Kwang Soo is a total d-bag. Simon, you look like you’re lacking sleep. Dr. Meemersworth must be a night owl.

  99. I am so flipping glad what you said about Chris Brown. To this very day, I refuse to listen to any of his songs. He beat the sh** out of Rihanna and everyone just forgave him? Are you f***ing serious? That pathetic little sh** should have gone straight to jail, dropped from his label and basically blacklisted. If there is ONE thing that always manages to piss me off is that people ALWAYS forgive celebrities. They literally get away with murder or molestation (I do believe you can think of which celebrities I am talking about). And people just forgive them. Why? Because they are good looking and sing fairly well? Well I guess if I want to escape prison, I should just become a superstar. If a normal, everyday John Smith beat the sh** out of his girlfriend, he would be in the darkest cell in prison. But Chris Brown got off with a slap on the wrist. Get the f*** out of here and sell stupid elsewhere.

  100. T-ARA is my favorite k-pop girl group since few months ago when I found out Bo Peep Bo Peep. I like them so much that I tried to show them to my friends (kpop fans as well), but they never cared a hell about it. With this happening, they just read the gossips and admitted everything as true. I even ask them to be more rational and think about it, and they just said “Are you still defending them?” and laughted at the whole “bullying” situation, creating really bad nicknames using the name of the group. I got mad all day… Until I found out this video. It’s really a relief to know that there are people around that have a rational and honest opinion about it. And I’m impressed that in such a “polemic” subject as this you two could still make some good jokes that make everyone relax. I got used to force myself to discover every single thing about my favorite groups because of my xtreme fangirling and competitive friends that sometimes I even forget about the music by it self. Although I already planned to love T-ARA songs as I always did, this video made me a lot better with that decision. And now with all the groups I will fangirl about the song, not about the singers :P
    And thank you, Simon and Martina, for the amazing farting songs xD (and I’m glad that cameras can’t catch smells, lol xD)

  101. In Korea,what kind of pets can you find in a pet store and how expensive are they?And what is the price for pet food,veterinarian visits, toys, etc.? What is the most popular pet in korea? ( this is for your TL;DR!)

    • I know that they have done short videos about stuff for Spudgy, but I too would like a well thought out pet TL;DR. I think it would be a fun and less controversial video. Thanks for suggesting it, even though I don’t know if it will happen.

  102. thisisjustforfunval

    You two wonderfully stated how I’ve always felt about kpop and could never say as cohesively as you guys did. I respect idols for committing to all the hard work and hard times they go through to follow their dreams no matter the cost. I’m an older fan (in fact a little older than you two) so I see it all differently, but at times I still can’t help but feel lazy compared to what kpop singers do everyday. These young guys and girls have a commitment to their dreams that most of us will never be able to understand or

    I love the music, it is what holds me to the scene. I could careless about the drama, but I do have one major care for all of them it is this. That they could all have a real vacation from time to time. Not just be robots who poop out music. It’s a momma bear attribute I have, but I see them so exhausted and I just want them to have a least one week off to be with family, friends, and yes away from each other and their fans. But more than anything, to take one of those days and just sleep.

  103. So I don’t know what is going on, but I will watch your video anyway… will that make me a creepy stalker fan…please :)

  104. WORD!!!!

  105. I just wish the best for all of them ^^

  106. I know T-ara will never be the same and that sucks cause they made really good songs, both catchy dance songs and powerful slower/ ballad songs. Also, they have good dances and live performances!
    I wonder if they’ll ever release Sexy Love or Day by Day part 2. Everythings’ recorded, well, maybe they would have to replace Hwayoung’s lines with Eunjung’s, but besides that its already done.

  107. LOL don’t even start on the 48 groups, I mean there are so many sister groups of AKB48 and there are now more than 48 members in AKB.

    This situation should just be called reality check cause it’s just telling people Idols can’t be perfect and are humans.

  108. When you guys talked about Chris and how horrible he is, all I could think about is my friend. She says that Chris beating Rihanna up was Rihanna’s fault. Apparently, she hit him first. Apparently, my friend was there -__-”

  109. Wow you guys are like professionals! Seriously~ I look up to you guys and your views on idols! And your right about how fans get caught up into the lives of the idols because I admit *raises hand* that I am kinda or sorta am like that! It’s not too great now that I think about it. And about how you guys think that all idol groups go through that you guys are completely correct! I mean even Super Junior has admitted to arguing between the members!~ EVERYONE IS HUMAN AND WE MAKE MISTAKES (:

  110. Well, one of the main reasons I follow you guys is precisely because of that blasé attitude you have towards kpop artists. You hype it up a bit (I’ve noticed :p) for your videos, but it’s nice to know that there’s still some people out there who can appreciate music without worshiping the artist.
    Having graduated from a musically-specialised high school, I’ve got many, many friends who are now professional singers and musicians, so I know that they’re not any different from me – they just have gifts in different areas, and I appreciate that.

    I find it sad that you even had to tell people this.

    On a brighter note, ORIGINAAAAL!!!! xD
    And during all that ‘farting’, I swear I started smelling some foul fumes in my room…. >.>

  111. Yup..! I am 100 % agree with you guys.. Music its what i want from them..

  112. You guys handled that really well! I suppose some people find it hard to separate music from the group members, so they treat it as one and the same and have a hard time admitting some things because of it.
    Don’t worry about the murderous addicts, you have a blue dragon and a kitty with a doctorate. If that can’t protect you I don’t know what will! XD

  113. I’m pretty sure the interpersonal situation with T-Ara is about like most groups in a stressful position…so not good but not appalling either. My problem is with the CEO, and I think a lot of people are the same way. He’s made a bad situation worse with his inability to shut up. Making conflicting statements, power plays, unsubtle threats for pity’s sake.

    I just don’t like it because he’s a douche, but I think the netizens are up in arms with a kind of ‘fool me once!’ attitude because he pulled this same shit with Nam Gyuri. ^^

  114. A totally on target discussion of the K-Pop/entertainment business world (and so many other worlds). Your post unfortunately probably serves little purpose, as anyone that needs the reality of these environs explained to them and hasn’t arrived at an understanding on their own in the first place is probably a lost cause and not practiced in rational arguments or fact-based analysis…or worse…one of those reactionary netizens burning CDs and calling for beheadings.

  115. I totally agree. Kpop fans almost worship kpop idols. I feel sad about this but its true. I hope every kpop fans should change the way they look upon kpop idols. Stop fighting and comparing your favorite idols.

  116. you guys should make sure to have korean subs for this…………..koreans really need to watch it, more than us from what I saw

  117. Everything was so rational, and then you guys brought up Chris Brown and I almost laughed out a lung. I applaud you! Other than the boobie video, this is one of my favorite TL;DRs.

  118. I really like your take on this. You guys are doing a great job!

  119. What you guys saying is totally true, i mean with the technology today, everyone interested in the kpop lives all over the world, the new travelling fast, their are not only competing against each other in Korea also with the recognition they want to get outside. Thus look at the history of the older idol, only what 1 or 2 group still maintain their relationship. The problem not only occur within kpop group, i’m sure it is also happen to the group/band in the other part of country.

  120. you guys handled this subject amazingly! i didn’t even know that the inncident with t-ara even happened until i watched this! i agree with you that it is just the music that comes with kpop, and not the drama and stuff that comes with being an idol.

  121. i completely agree about the chris brown thing!
    ever since he beat rihanna i cannot look at his face without wanting to scream, and the fact that girls still throw themselves at him, even when hes become more of a douchebag, is completely insane to me!

  122. You guys answered so well! So true about Hyuna and her back up dancers….. oops.

  123. Well when yout think about it these idols are idols because they want to sing and get involve with music and getting further into the entertainment industries also getting themselves well-known for their songs that’s an every aritist’s dream are and it’s kind of true what S&M saying about “how fans get so caught up in the lives of artists, and forget about the music itself”

  124. Thank you, I totally agree. Finally someone said this.

    BEE! BEE! BEE! BEEE BEEEBEEEE :D Props to whoever gets what song I just “farted” :D

    Edit: “We can resolve our disputes with snuggles and kisses. How do kpop idols resolve their disputes?” :D I believe alot of Kpop fans hope, they do just that :D:D

  125. I go for the music too. When the idols dont sing well, i dont even give them my attention when fans cry over their beauty and close their ears about the music.

    But i do fan girl, a lot, but mostly to those with beautiful powerful vocals. Or the group has some good damn music.

    In T-ara, i dont find anything special in their music or vocals. I can never find that spark or intense feeling whenever i listen to their songs.

  126. I totally agree with simon and martina, it is not fair for people to ask for EunJung to be removed of WGT (sorry 4 my Engrish :D)

  127. I think any group of people, stuck together, can be ‘catty’ with each other. Especially when tired/hungry/overworked. However to dismiss something that may be happening all the time as just normal behavior is where I disagree. When little fights due to stress etc start to become a regular thing, with more than one other person joining in, and it actually having a lasting effect on the victim is where i draw the line. Like you have stated, they are in the age group of 18-26 and are not children anymore. They should possess the social skills to be able to sort out their conflict. I mean, come on, she was with them for 20 months! If there is still internal conflict after this length of time – something isn’t right. I am not saying I believe Hwayoung was being bullied but that If conflict was happening – it shouldn’t be. If you get me :)

  128. simon and martina you guys nailed it. i agree with you 100%. I was never a Queen and even if the rumors are true I will still listen to their music if it is good. Most kpop fans like kpop for the idols themselves and not the music which I think is why so many ppl are ganging up on T-ara and saying they will never listen to a T-ara song again. That just means that T-ara didn’t have a lot of fans to begin with if so many are willing to become ANTI T-ara fans w/o knowing what really happened and listening to all the gossip. Even though Hwayoung got kicked out she’s probably better off. She obviously wasn’t happy with them so I wish her good luck in her future endeavors.

  129. I think you guys make a good point in the video. They really don’t get to choose who they are in a group with………And people will always be like, “Look they get along so well in their shows about their daily live and on variety shows!” ….And as much as I REALLY hope the groups do have a decent or a really good friendship, it’s not a set it stone thing……………Though I would assume ( this is just my opinion though ) smaller groups probably have it easier. Living in a dorm with maybe 3 or 4 other people sounds easier then a dorm full of like…10+. o.o; But then again it might mean a less likely chance to find even 1 person you really bond with in the group. That all being said; I’ve never really been a fan of T-ara, but I wish them all the best. Hopefully their careers can overcome something like this.

  130. QUESTION! SIMON AND MARTINA! How did your lives change when you guys switched from being teachers to bloggers? Do you miss you students, getting out and the pay? And the difference in lifestyles?

  131. This video really helps in understanding the dynamics of a K-pop idol group!
    Also about the CB with the Rihanna issue, you won’t be happy to know that they are back together, so sad!

  132. I kept nodding throughout this video..i think i have a concussion :’D

  133. Guys, I love you. You put into words my thoughts. Now when my friends will ask my opinion about K-pop scandals, i will let you talk for me (or the video). I will save time fouuuuuuuuuuuh !

  134. I’m sorry but the videos I’ve seen of how Hwayoung has been treated does not just come down to her being the maknae. There’s a video where Jiyeon goes to high five all the members but she clearly and intentionally skips Hwayoung. There’s a video from Japanese TV where a person is taking pictures of all the members of T-ara and showing them to Japanese on the street and asking them who they think is the prettiest. One of them picks Hwayoung and all the girls laugh with obvious scorn at the choice.

  135. We want to talk about kpop not as fans who worship the idols, but as people who appreciate the music.”

    i love this statement..

  136. It’s nice to hear a normal and honest opinion about this matter. You guys really handled this question well and I was looking forward to your answer on it. It’s a shame the media has made this intio quite a spectacle. If only they were more like you ^_^

  137. Worshipping them (idols) is sinful because the are ordinary people that were lucky enough to be blessed with signing, acting and dance abilities. I love their songs though! That’s what the important thing is in the end. Well if I was with a group of girls for 24/7-365 days a year, then you’d be certain to be plenty of cat fights and abusive verbal exchange! What I do when people talk about me or want to start something , I ignore them because they are not important to me and mean nothing to me.

  138. Couldn’t have said it better. ^_^

  139. As much as the maknae thing is true but some of the evidence I have seen was convincing enough to show that it was more than just “being the maknae” in comparison to how other groups treat their maknae.

  140. Mhm! COULDN’T HAVE EXPLAINED I BETTER! The idols are like normal people! “What we care about is music. We want to talk about kpop not as fans who worship the idols, but as people who appreciate the music. You know what we’re saying”? Agreed!

  141. Well its episodes like this that keep those tabloids gainfully employed. Jealousy, rivalries, catfights, etc…. sounds like something out of a soap.

  142. You guys should review the new 3 female group D-Unit! One of the members is Wooram (T-ara’s Jeon Boram’s sister) They have a new song out called “I’m missing you”

  143. My question…What is up with the glasses? I have seen so many wearing false glasses and I wonder what the deal is. I have been wearing them for 28 years and don’t know why people would do the fake thing, Martina? Thank you.

  144. Wooow!!!! Seriously, this video is worth it….. I hope they resolve everything quickly…. I can’t say I don’t care about their personal life and all….. but I’m not so into it….as to forget that they are also humans……and humans are bound to make mistakes……. Anyway, whatever the case disbandment or not….. I hope T-ara and Hwayoung will be okay….

  145. irritablevowel

    “and news sites are more interested in stirring things up rather than reporting on news”

    For reals. I see these ridiculous articles that basically say, “The second cousin of the best friend of the the brother of the sound mixer said that…” I think someone should email Soompi or Allkpop, claim to be a friend/relative/employee and declare that T-ara are actually the Lords of Kobol, and that Hwayoung is a cylon. They’d probably publish it. (nerdy reference concluded).

    As for the business of K-pop, it’s actually very much like the classic Hollywood studio system of yore.

    History lesson shall commence….Now: Before the 1950′s, the movie studios basically owned their performers. So while in the k-pop world musicians are affiliated with YG, SM, JYP, Cube etc. In classic hollywood actors were affiliated with Paramount, Universal, Warner Brothers and MGM. There were studio feuds (YG vs. SM = Warner Bros. vs. MGM), actors were developed and prepared by the studio in what they called “The Factory”. The studios told them what to wear, who to be seen with, where to be seen, what to say, where to live. There are stories of stars getting calls to show up at certain glamourous spots, and a makeup and wardrobe person would be there waiting for them. The studio basically created a public persona for the actors (the classic Cary Grant line is, “Everybody wants to be Cary Grant. Even I want to be Cary Grant.”) and they worked them like dogs making movie after movie. If they didn’t want to do a particular movie, they would put them on suspension and extend their already unreasonably long contracts (it was very similar to an indentured servant contract, no joke.) The system finally ended when the actress Olivia de Havilland sued Warner Bros. when they tried to extend her contract. It went all the way to the California Supreme Court, which decided in her favor. A law was passed called the De Havilland law and to this day protects actors, musicians, writers, etc.

    ANYHOO, my purpose in sharing this is that is when I first became aware of not just k-pop, but the business of k-pop, it struck me that they were following the same patterns. The trainee system, unreasonable working hours, the highly controlled public image. What people need to understand is that what they see on tv and what they see in the videos and what they read in the magazines is a performance. It’s a performance meant to please us, but it tells you nothing about the performer. These performers are just ordinary people, who are talented at a particular thing. And as ordinary people, they have ordinary problems, just like everybody else.

    • mekko

      Thank you for your insight into the business of K-Pop. I have often thought that the industry harked back to some of our older days, but I never realized to what extent. Who knows, maybe they’ll even have an Idol Union someday?

    • Spot on with the facts. I always thought K-pop industry was similar to the classic Hollywood

    • I’ve done some academic reading on Hallyu and k-pop Hallyu in particular, and one aspect that came up in several sources – that I found very surprising – was that the goal was not only to spread/sell Korean music across the globe, but also to spread the system of production itself. In other words, many of the leaders of the industry really believe they have found a formula for producing pop music that could and should be implemented elsewhere. (Actually, as much or more effort goes into producing the idols themselves, whose core group of fans will then automatically buy the music.) *coughendlessexoteaserscough*

      • irritablevowel

        See, it blows my mind that they wouldn’t realize it *has* been implemented elsewhere, a long time ago. Right down to creating such loyalty to a particular actor or actress that the fan would go see them in any movie or buy any product associated with them.

        You know, I made a lame Battlestar Galactica joke before, but for anyone familiar with that series, it’s now a relevant reference. Hey Korean music industry, spoiler alert, the cylons always end up rebelling.

        • HA! Don’t be surprised if someone takes you up on that.

          Not to mention, the US has had its own flirtations with corporate-formed vocal groups (okay, boy bands), but they suffered from similar problems and certainly did not revolutionize the industry.

        • Liliek Adelina

          ha! this is very interesting! i am actually a college student and my thesis topic is none other than Hallyu itself! But mostly about the reception from international audience. 지니아, do you mind give me the references on the academic reading you’ve mentioned on your comment? And irritablevowel, do you have any references in mind about what so called the classic Hollywood approach? Thank you before!

        • irritablevowel

          We have a taker! The definitive book on the studio era is “The Genius of the System” by Thomas Schatz. Also, “The Star Machine” by Jeanine Basinger is a really fascinating look at how stars were manufactured and the different ways those stars dealt with the system. It’s entertaining, but it’s also very anecdotal and may not be as helpful as the first. You may want to throw an email out to any film professors at your school and ask for suggestions. Film professors LOVE to talk about the studio era.

      • XD it is a little funny. Can’t be implemented EVERYWHERE. Not saying the US doesn’t have “follow the leader tendencies” but there is a reason why we only have idols for kids. We kind-of grow out these things after college (some don’t and that is fine) because we are told to question things, or we want to grow out of it to avoid looking uncool.

        Plus I feel like Americans we have this weird complex. We want to fit in and be part of the crowd like everyone else, but we are being told to be different and that we are unique. XD We get this weird “WE GOTTTA BE THE SAME BUT NOT TOO MUCH THE SAME” complex.

    • I get what you are saying. But for an artist, being an idol is VERY ideal. Not because you can become famous, but it means job security. You sign a contract for x amount of pay. And if the group fails, you might find some other job within the company.

      And I am glad you mention the old entertainment industry in the US. Going back even further, film actually never publicized their actors. They were afraid that they would demand most of the money. Until a famous actress (back then they would be called by their character names, like if we were to say Ted instead of Keanu Reeves) started a false rumor that she died in a tragic accident. This caused a big uproar. She stepped out and made a statement saying “I couldn’t of died! I am the actress!” This of coarse got her name out there, and forced companies to release actor names, and started the whole star system.

      Point being companies are always trying to control the fame of actors, actresses, singers, and athletes. Sometimes I think it is justified, mostly to control egos (look at sports, most of them are jerks) But it is mostly about money.

      I think the thing that is interesting about this scandal isn’t about the actual issue between Hwayoung and T-ara- it is about what it could mean for idols. I don’t think much will surface with Korea since they are very much an “everything you say can effects both parties’ reputation” If Hwayoung was treated unjustly, and sued, she might win, but she may never be touched by another entertainment company.

      • irritablevowel

        I see your point, and keep in mind the studio system lasted a good 30 odd years before an actor successfully challenged it. Others had tried, but most were afraid of, as you pointed out, risking their job security as contract players. Those who did try were painted as difficult and spoiled divas. It took an actress with a great reputation (though the studio did their best to smear her), and a lot of behind the scenes support from other actors, for the system to be successfully challenged. That actor support was the key difference. By that point, despite the security of being a contract players, many were tired of being treated like cattle. She was the right actress at the right time to make it happen. Of course, there was a perfect storm of events following this that helped reverse the tide of power (an anti-trust suit, television, the rise of the method actor, etc.)
        So what does this have to do with k-pop or the whole T-ara thing? I truly believe that the reason there has been such an angry response is 1. People love drama 2. People are pissed off that the fantasy has been revealed as just that, a fantasy. This T-ara incident has momentarily removed the glossy veneer, letting the public see that there is a system at work here and that all is not always unicorns and daisies behind the scenes. There is dissent among the ranks. That pisses the audience off because people like their idols superhuman. That’s why they call them “idols” and not just “very popular”. Something that contradicts that image calls into question their own judgement, meaning that they’re not just angry at T-ara, they’re angry at themselves as well. It’s important for the fans to identify a “villain” so they can continue the superhuman fantasy, excepting a few bad apples that snuck in. It’s important because the only other option is to recognize that “idols” are just ordinary, deeply fIawed human beings, who tell you want you want to hear, because that’s their job. People don’t want to think of the music industry as being so…industrial. I think when people realize *ahead* of time that it’s a performance, they aren’t bothered. They see it like Simon and Martina do. Idols are employees of companies that provide entertainment. They are working joes just like us, but with more money and a better wardrobe. As for the future of the industry, I don’t think the k-pop idols are anywhere near the point where they can successfully buck the system, but I think it will eventually happen. For now I think the biggest result will be that idols are going to get stern warnings about what they post on Twitter and the like. Christ, how is this so long! I talk too much.

        • JenniferSakraida

          lol XD Yeah, I think (aside from seeing their gods fall) I think this has a lot of relevant issues in Korea society. Mainly bullying. I think this is an easy way to put misplaced anger about what happens in school. If you can’t help your friend, you can at least help your helpless idol.

          I think from the get-go with Korean music I was aware of how “industrial” it is. Because of it I was really hesitant going in. How can I say I am a “fan” if the artists have no control? But I still found myself listening to the same artist over and over, and occasionally I grow to like the personality of some artists.

          I mean these is NOTHING new about all of this. And not excluding the US… can someone say Partridge Family? Monkees? (I love the Monkees though XD)

  146. Well you guys don’t want to get into
    the T-ara drama but it’s okay to judge Chris Brown? I bet there’s
    plenty of stuff we don’t know about his situation. Some say Rihanna
    hit him multiple times first and such but hey… nobody knows for
    sure. People get crazy about “this guy beat a girl” stuff and
    think that’s all there’s to it.

    Some people even say that Daesung
    killed a guy last year but that doesn’t stop me from listening to Big
    Bang. I mean i love Daesung and Chris Brown as artists and i don’t
    judge them for their drama in their private life.

    Btw, Spudgy’s awesome.

    • Whatever the case maybe, it’s never okay for either sex to hit each other…just saying….

    • Nobody should be hitting anybody. (“She started it!” is a lame excuse. It didn’t work in kindergarten and it’s not going to work with the police, either.)

      • I’m not pointing fingers. I’m just saying some people were in a really really bad relationship and it ended in physical violence. People shouldn’t just judge them like they know everything about their situation. They should’ve broke up before this incident happened but that’s sadly not the case.

        But we’re now 3 years further and they hang out and make songs together again. If they can forgive each other.. why don’t we forgive them?

        By the way, Simon and Martina are obviously in a great relationship. They have great chemistry, have fun and they’re spreading positivity around. Sadly not all relationships are like that.

  147. Suzy is popular among Miss A and Hyun Ah is popular among 4Minute but they are close and I think it’s hard to break up like T-Ara
    I think you guys right, if T-Ara continues to sing on stage,we keep supporting because we listen and feel the music,not supporting because of the idols.I don’t know what’s going on inside but I think there are some reason for everything(like what HyoMin say)


  149. Very Very true comments about K-Pop Idols are also just normal people like you and me! As long as nothing are violence and threaten to people’s life+freedom, their personal affair should not be an issue for listening to their music or not!!

  150. Question :

    In your opinion, what are the biggest defects of Korea? Of course I like Korea but we all know that a perfect country doesn’t exist.

    • irritablevowel

      I think that’s a loaded question (for them I mean). Outside criticism does not seem to be received kindly in their neck of the woods. At least not in the age of the hysterical internet.

  151. I totally agree with your thoughts! At first, they are ordinary people, just like us. And at second, they are artistic people who sing, acting and etc. We should respect and love them for this, but not for their privacy or appearance. I hope my English is readable. ))))

  152. Guys, thanks for restoring my faith in humanity (or kpop fans, for that matter).

  153. I really used to be like this– just music and that’s it. I particularly loved CNBLUE, 2NE1 and Big Bang. I only cared about their respective music and songs. But the more I got into Kpop, it was like I was sucked into this hole that keeps getting deeper and deeper. It’s creepy. I blame the moment I started watching variety shows. One day I just woke up and realized I know almost every single name of the active Kpop idols. My sister gets really shocked when we listen to a Kpop song or watch a Kpop music video, and I start spewing out massive information about this member or that member or what happened with this and that. I wasn’t like this before AT ALL!

    I swear to God it’s addicting and creepy. But that’s how it happened with me. Once you get into it, it’s hard to turn your back away from it. I really wish there comes a point when I get over this. I know I will get over this but now I really miss those days when my sister and I will listen to 2NE1 songs and we’ll have a blast because we know nothing about the stress, the drama and all that. Sigh. :(

    • i feel your pain! i once had a life too!!! hahaha

    • Once you get into it, it’s hard to turn your back away from it. ”

      i feel the same way..

    • I’m actually just getting into this aspect of k-pop only because I want to stop fan girling and start viewing these idols as people, just like you and me! 6^_^9

    • Used to be a hard core crazy kpop fan, but i forced myself to leave kpop and i did for a year. Than an awesome group debuted and here i am again lol!!

    • true that! i agree with you 120.9%!

    • To be honest, if it wasn’t for creepy stalking fans, it wouldn’t be hot online and you wouldn’t be searching for it. Its easy to stalk esp if you’re online. Internet is crazy. Not all rumors are true. You’ll get over it soon. :)

      I love 2ne1, bigbang. But that’s it. I’m not crazy over them, i’m crazy over their music. You’ll never go crazy over them if you have other stuff to do with your life. Try to distract yourself once in a while. Read books, or fly with the wind. I don’t know.

    • I totally under stand what you’re saying. It’s like when I first started I was just in to the music but now I stalk my idols like a crazy fan girl. It nothing wrong being a fan girl, sometimes I feel like we go to far and we think we now our idols in real person. that thought creepy’s me out. I try my best to not go to far with the idols. right know I try my best to just like my idols for their music and hard work. Im sorry about my bad english ^^”

    • yeah that’s true but you’re just manifesting human nature. you do it with kpop but there are grown men in the US who are as obsessed with black NBA or NFL players. they read blogs 24/7 have sportscenter on their iphone open all day and can tell you what the guys were wearing and saying after practice. every woman they date, every tweet they make about anything in the world is all over the internet

      these are grown ass 30 year old men…

      so yeah it happens.

      • Yeah I guess it’s human nature. What makes it even harder for me is that I don’t have any friends who are as into Kpop as I am. My sister likes some of them but she doesn’t exactly delve into every single detail. So every time I feel the need to discuss it with someone, I have no choice but to go on the internet and the cycle repeats itself. Lol. (BTW, as I write this, it’s almost 2 AM here!!! HA!) It doesn’t really affect my life very extremely. I mean, I still go to work as a fully functional human being. But my current interest in Kpop is like 80x more than my interest before.

        As long as it doesn’t ruin my life, I know I’ll get over it. And when that happens, I know I’ll reminisce about the days when I’d stay up really late just to ogle at the sight of my Kpop biases. :)

        • Julie Morgan

          Ok…basically everything you said here is exactly like me!! LOL Its 1:53 am here. None of my friends are remotely interested in Kpop and the second i started watching variety shows I was way addicted, like its bad.

        • I too blame variety shows …. but there just so good

    • You’re comment is the most relatable thing i have EVER read in my entire life. Acknowledging you have a problem is the first step to overcoming it; after reading your comment, for the first time ever, I acknowledge that I am addicted to these Kpop idols. And it’s not a good thing and I really need to get a life; I realized.
      Kpop rehab, here I come… :/

    • I used to be like that too, and then I got hardcore, but then I was away from kpop for a long time, due to no internet connection. So it helped a lot:P
      I REALLY like ALL the music T-ara has, (but I don’t know any of the names), so I am a little sad because of this controversy…

    • sorry… that kpop “needle” will be stuck in my arm FOREVER!!! KPOP RULES!! lol

  154. Hey simon and martina!!!! You guys are awesome. I also made a video on T-ara, and have two other videos. If you guys could check it out and other people too I would be honored. The channel is kpopindian. The video is called “T-ara’s Hwayoung Bullying Reaction”

  155. Amen to your Chris Brown comment!

  156. thatssumgoodcurry

    THANK YOU for this video, guys. And even though you couldn’t address the maknae thing in the video, thanks for blogging about it, because it really is a very important dynamic when considering the relationships of Kpop groups. Sometimes people think they know everything about a group or scandal or whatever, but really? That’s the most ignorant position you can take.
    Also, thanks for that bit about Chris Brown, too. Him and Kanye REALLY get me going. I mean, I won’t right now, I’ll spare you guys, but really… -_-

  157. Wow, that was really good! Idk why but when you talked about how idol group members didn’t know each other beforehand I thought of BigBang. GD and TOP were good friends and had been singing together since before BigBang. It’s initially because of GD that TOP even got into BigBang. And GD was really good friends with Taeyang pre-debut at YG because they were both there since they were 12, working together. I find it really sweet how they knew each other before, and find it extremely cool that they ended up in the same amazing group. You don’t see this in kpop a lot. Regarding t-ara, I can understand what they were going through. Not only were all the conditions Simon and Martina stated placed on them, they also have a retarded CEO. But no matter how much we discuss the t-ara issue, the end result is the same. Their image is completely wrecked. What I’m personally waiting for, is for a t-ara member to say SOMETHING. I’m sick of the CEO’s lies…

  158. I do have to say, a lot of this is reminding me of what happened just over a year ago with U-Kiss. Kibum suddenly stopped appearing with U-Kiss, then the rumours started then bam over night drama about both Kibum and Alexander leaving. Kibum spoke up a little bit at the time saying they found his skills lacking then faded off. The issue with Alexander persisted longer mostly because he first stayed in the company then only formally left after a show case a few weeks later. A year later we still don’t know what happened and like with T-ara we will never know. Only the members in that group probably know what happened.

    I think at the heart of this issue is two things, one how attached people get to their idols and two, how poorly this whole situation was dealt with. It was messy right from the get go, and how KKS deals with situations doesn’t help anything either. I’ll likely still listen to their music if it is go. I just probably won’t actively follow them anymore like I used to. And its more for the reason that I am disappointed with how this situation was dealt with more than anything else.

  159. I hope you don’t get too much backlash from younger people who haven’t reached the point where they understand this concept of idols NOT being gods or in any way really different from your or me.
    I think you treated the topic very well, and managed to develop good points, which hopefully worked as eye-openers for those who fall into the category I mentioned above!
    I have, like you two, thought about how stressful the life of a kpop idol must be, so the video wasn’t anything “new” to me, but the part in the blog post about the role of the maknae was very interesting! Thank you for bringing it up.
    Maybe you will want to post a more relaxed tl;dr next week, so the spirit of tl;dr doesn’t become too “political”, and then, since people seem to be requesting it to a large extent, move on to sasaeng fans in two weeks? (Personally I don’t know what you could say about them; they are people who fail at recognising that idols are people too. It’s sad. Not much one can do, you know?)
    Anyway, as I said, I think you did a good job with this video! EYK fighting! ;D

  160. THE TRUTH IS SPOKEN! Chris Brown really is a dickhead.

  161. omg i love you guys so much… nobody knows what happend and never will unless you are T-ara… so why bother picking sides… ppl been driving me crazy about it…

  162. i totally agree with u guys!
    My question is do u guys have a favorite group in the k-pop industry and y?

  163. Im not really a fan of T-ara but which one is Hwayoung?? It takes me a while to know who is who

  164. The two of us here at Eat Your Kimchi don’t give a burning crap about the lives of idols, how dreamy they are, how they act on TV shows, or anything like that. We barely even know the members names most of the time, and it shouldn’t matter if we know their names or not.”
    what about TOP

  165. Ahh thank you now I hope some of those biased people watch, read, and listen to you. It pains me to see people bashing on people who may be completely innocent not realizing what they’re doing is bullying too. Hypocrites. We might never know what happened but at least this incident exposes people to what kind of problems idols go through and perhaps get a psychologist for the company or group as someone mentioned below (or above?! xD I don’t know). I’ve been trying to get to people by saying that their “proofs” are unreliable but people believe what they want to believe. And all those anonymous sources will keep coming as long as people support them and watch the world burn.

  166. oh, u talked abt T-ara? somehow I felt as if you were talking abt JYJ – TVXQ all the time ^^ thank you for this movie, totally agree with you guys.

  167. I think this T-ara thing has gone too far and made to be way worse than what it’s suppose to be. I don’t know if there was an event before that happened liked this, but I must say, this is really crazy.

  168. Shinhwa farted in their TV show so yes I can image an idol farting lol XD

  169. lol I’ve didn’t know they split after watching this i know now lol
    aw this sucks but i agree with every word u said because no body actually knows what happened and no one will! ..we all just need to hope for the best for them and time will pass very fast and people will forget and things will go back the way they were….i guess

  170. I really love this video, this is exactly what I think about this scandal. People just don’t get that they are humans and it’s completely normal for them to fight. It must be really common in groups.
    Thank you, I feel a lot better thinking people will actually be able to listen to your opinion, because that’s a good way of thinking you guys have ! :D

  171. I think your point about her being the maknae is a good one: As an ELF I’ve heard tons of stories about Kyuhyun entering the band late and then getting treated poorly etc…

    HOWEVER–I would like to object to your point about girls being catty, in bold. I think this is a sexist stereotype you shouldn’t be endorsing. Looking at Super Junior, they have had similar experiences (see all their drama, including the story they just told on Strong Heart) and yet they’re male. I think your argument would have been stronger if you had just left gender out of it–it was unnecessary.

    • Dont lie to yourself. Girls are more likely to be catty. Super Junior case is showing exactly how boys not taking relationship problem too seriously as a problem, they can even speak it out in front of the camera. I am a girl, and I don’t think the catty thing is sexist sterotype.. I think it’s just discribing the nature of girls who are more sensitive, more possessive etc.. .

    • Ana Luiza Mendes Halabi

      I agree with you, principaly in the Kyuhyun case. A member entering in a group later – think about us entering in a new class – is difficult to fit in (speccially in the entertainment). But Kyuhyun seems to be a lot more talkative than Hwayoung, and SM does’t make idols fight against each other with peaople rotation in groups like CCM. -look, i’m not saying SM is the best. they also suck, the things they do with their idols…

  172. Martinaaaaa, where did you buy those glasses? They’re so cool! I live in Europe, do you think I can buy them of the internet?

  173. HA! I know I shouldn’t be laughing but that Chris Brown thing was so funny to me….I need help….o-O….anyway…..
    I love you guys….every thing that you said is exactly what I try to tell my friends….It saddens me that things like this happen, but we are all human and honestly I am here for the awesome, clean music….
    I think every kpop fan needs to watch this before they become crazy stans…^^

  174. Awesome TL;DR! I really like the approach you’ve taken (and I was just getting tired of the whole “BULLIERS HAVE TO DIE” on allkpop). The T-ara drama did not really surprised me. It was bound to happen: in a certain way, the company “imposed” a new member. Whether it brought a “better sound” or not, this addition completely changed the group dynamics. Sure, the other members could have been “nicer” towards Hwayoung and Hwayoung might have tried “harder” to be integrated (perhaps the fact that she became the new maknae as you said did not help her…). But we should not blame them for not getting along,we’re humans after all (“L’enfer, c’est les autres”). Just hope that both will continue to have a brighter musical career…

  175. …Well, this is new. Such a fail Korean, so out of loop on everything :P
    This is hardly the first time a KPop group broke up due to member conflict anyway.

    Anyone heard of S#arp, a famous co-ed group in the 90s? They broke up around the turn of the millenium b/c the two female members were on really bad terms and it escalated into a nasty physical fight. With seven/eight people, the drama’s probably worse.

    Can’t add anything else other than I agree with EYK. The only real person you might be able to blame is their company CEO for putting them through slave labor-like work schedule (which probably made everything worse) and having shitty team management.

  176. This remind me of “The Greatest Love”
    Ae Jung was once the most popular member of girl band The National Treasure Girls. However 10 years ago the band broke up and she received most of the blame. Despite her warm personality her career has suffered ever since and she now spends her time fighting for air time on variety shows . Thank you for explaining this whole drama, cause I couldn’t really go through all the news and rumours and really figure out what was going on, I didn’t read that much tough.

  177. Oh my LAND. Thank you SO much for that one last paragraph in your blog post, I relate to it a ton! Recently with the whole ordeal about y’all reviewing Psy for KMM and how you guys were (essentially) harassed by some fans, I totally wanted to spout and spew about this kind of fan-ing (idk what to call it hah). The dedication many kpop fans have to their idols is really amazing (and I’m not saying it in a good or bad way, it just is what it is)… Not just with kpop either, it’s for any kind of celebrity, though it seems more extreme with kpop.

  178. So tell me, honestly, did the Dr. make it’s own personal guest appearance during the making of this fine video?

    “What kind of television is on in Korea? Is it a mix of kpop/western/anime? All i ever see are talk shows or gag shows or competitions… (What is the night time teve like? o///O? Is is pervy or full of nostalgia?) IS THERE AN AMERICAN CHANNEL?

  179. That was a very intelligent response, and I am glad to know that there are people like you in the world.

  180. la la la la LOVE you guys u always put a smile on my face and u made this scandal slightly less depressing :D

  181. this was the best view i’ve seen on the topic this entire time. then again… i’ve been reading fan posts made by kids that have been talking on this subject

  182. You guys are awesome! You totally summed up all my feels about the whole T-ara/Hwayoung issue. People forget that this has happened before, maybe not as messily as T-ara/Hwayoung, but Oh Wonbin left FTIsland saying that he wanted to do different types of music – did you listen to his first solo song? It sounded exactly like FTIsland. Plus FTIsland didn’t hide the fact that Hongki and Wonbin had physical fights before. And, I’m totally sure it will happen again in the future.

    As for the farting, I totally lol’d.

  183. I try to not care very much about the idols lives, but first, as someone below said, we have all these shows talking about their lives and even if I don’t have too much time to watch all of them, it’s so hard to be “impartial” in that way.
    Yet I listen to music firstly because of the music (and not the singer), but also it wouldn’t be true if I told that the song being from my favourite group doesn’t make me like just a little bit more (although if a song of my fav group isn’t of good quality, I would absolutely think and say it).
    But, I mean, certain things of idols I can put aside, but others would make me think “I don’t want my hard-earned money going to a s** of a b**** that beat women” or anything bad like that, right?
    So… everything is relative xD

  184. I know this doesnt have anything to do with the topic of the video , but Martina I love your makeup :D !

  185. Ahah you guys are so random! random fart music time!! ヘ( ̄ー ̄ヘ)

    But T-ara had 8 members, up until Hwayoung was kicked out, so they are 7 now, and I appreciated your thoughts~

    “is the idolatry that goes on, how fans get so caught up in the lives of artists, and forget about the music itself.” right on!

  186. unverifiable sources = AllKpop. well atleast to me. they have been titling their artices with EXTREMELY misleading titles lately. shame shame

  187. Hear, hear! I was always curious about maknaes and now I feel enlightened.

  188. Preach that Chris Brown argument! PREACH IT HARD.

  189. I’m pretty sure Jiyeon was actually still the maknae even after Hwayoung joined.. O_o Wasn’t Jiyeon born in June 93 and Hwayoung was April 93? Doesn’t that mean that Jiyeon should have actually been more respectful to her?

  190. I LOL’d at the Bi Rain part XD So hard XD

  191. thank you very much for your senisible opinion! T_T finally i see a sensible opinion you have no idea how happy i am <3 Thank you!

  192. Finally a source of sanity in all of this >__> I love your point of view on this and couldn’t agree more. About the farting. Okay, and the Hwayoung thing too. As a Sone, I can’t help but wonder how ANY group works this hard and puts forth such smiling faces on basically no rest. Nice job keeping it real guys! My faith in you all is definitely a large non-zero number. <3

  193. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Had to stop halfway, cause I got bored – they should just grow up, they’re not trainees anymore. Or quit. Bai bai crybabies. I mean, I know there are many things you don’t have to put up with, but gooood… There were many other artists who had to got through something like tension among members or with the company (off the top of my head two japanese neighbors – kat-tun and namie amuro) but didn’t become an embarrassment and rather worked hard to get the issue out of their heads. Blaah.

  194. Ah, relief. I like honest and reasonable people like you. Once I heard about this date “scandal” with a member of SNSD, and I really didn’t get (and I still don’t see why) what was scandalous about “strong guys” (as in Taecyeon from 2PM) not being her type! So, when I was done reading, I made this face -_- and read actual news.

  195. i totally agree with you, what i have been saying this whole time too is also that a good idea for the idol groups and trainees would be if the companies had psychologists to deal with internal problems, stressed out or sad idols/trainees, that way they also don’t have to bottle it up and they get tools to work with themselves and the group in the future. people think of psychologists as something insane people need. not true, it’s a good stress reliever and you do get some good ass tools to work with in the future o.o

  196. It’s funny, I didn’t even know about the … ‘issue’ until I saw your tweet saying that you would answer the barrage of people asking for your opinion.

    So I did a quick search, so I could have a remote clue as to what was going on. At first I was a little concerned — I don’t think I could in consciousness support a company (not just the group) that promotes bullying between its employees. No more than I could (or do) support you-know-who for what he did. Then I noticed that there was no clear evidence on any of it .. it was just a bunch of accusations and speculations being thrown around. Bah.

    What I’m trying to say, is thank you for posting such a clear-headed view on the entire matter. I hope enough people watch (and read the additional material here) and calm the heck down. Feeding sensationalism makes it grow bigger.

  197. Being one of 4 sisters, I’ve asked my dad before on what it was like to raise us and he said it was only difficult for the first 17 years.

  198. “We don’t care about GD’s funny smelling cigarette, Block B’s terrible interview in Thailand, or Jay Park’s awkward blog posts.”

    LOL thank you for this. Also thank you for discounting Chris Brown though because he is the worst.

  199. What we care about is music, and we want to talk about kpop not as fans who worship the idols, but as people who appreciate the music. You know what we’re saying?”
    Can I say this is the most intelligent thing anyone has said that I’ve seen when talking about K-pop, all I ever hear is my OPPA this, my NOONA that.
    I mean I do it SOMETIMES but not as crazily and hectic as most people, so thanks for putting that. <3

  200. Thanks guys for bringing some common sense and logical thinking into this issue. People are going nuts about this and there haven’t been any actual facts released. Other than Hwayoung being fired, that has been the only thing that’s confirmed. And I agree with you on that we will never really know what went on between the members. Just like we don’t know what exactly it was that got Jay Park removed from 2PM.

    By the way, I’m so glad that you said that you don’t support Chris Brown. I was just thinking how you feel about him when you said that in the video.
    Oh, and the possible cat-fights in AKB48 is something I don’t want to think about…I couldn’t ever be around that many girls even for a day. To be around them all the freaking time, well that’s just unimaginable. Prr..

  201. I completely agree with you guys! I love KPOP asin the music but I also recently enjoying variety show but it kinda of worries me how they act lovey dovey and all aegyo. So I’ve never trusted the way KPOP words things and that’s why I haven’t token sides either

  202. One of the things I love about you guys right here. While most videos are just for fun when you make a serious statement its a really smart one. I can appreciate it seeing how it reaches out to offer an alternation opinion to groups of fans who reale on media sites for information. Hopefully more people will get a better understanding of this ‘scandal’ over time.

  203. I used to be that way, the “Oh, I’m just about the music, I dun really care about the whole backstory” but getting into k-pop kind of changed my perception of all that. It’s a lot easier to get invested in K-idols lives because it’s shown by public networks and not in the TMZ way which feels particularly skeevy. But I can totally understand your point of view.

    Also, as a side note, I would be beyond excited to meet you two, and, while not fainting, I would be jittery for a bit, because you guys have entertained me so much and you don’t know who I am at all. While I reason to myself that, yes, you are just normal humans, you are humans who I have watched multiple times on camera.


    (A side note to my side note: I have been wanting to play Catan since you guys mentioned it in the video game tl;dr, but none of my friends have it, or don’t want to play it. If only I knew you two in real life…)

  204. I honestly don’t care about T-ara and all the drama, I just hope Hwayoung will find a better company soon because I think she is really talented

  205. I honestly didn’t even know anything was happening with T-ara. I’m like you guys, I like the music, I don’t really pay attention to rumors and stuff like that, and it doesn’t change if I still listen to their music or not. I still listen to Block B I still listen to 2PM and I listen to Jay Park. Because, you’re right, they’re human and they are bound to mess up from time to time.

  206. I totally agree with you guise!

    But I do care about things that happen in idols lives, I always -unless it shows that they are horrible, disgusting people like Chris Brown – look at it on a non-judgemental, human level. I love learning about people and what they’re like. :D if they are terrible people like Chris Brown, I will not support them. I love music but I hold who the musicians are as people, what they stand for, as top priority. That’s why I care about their personalities so much and them off stage. :) Because after all, it’s like what you said, they’re people, and that matters the most.

  207. How is the TV culture about foreign shows? Are the non-korean channels and their shows as watched/popular as the korean ones?

  208. Well said,guys!Sometimes I think that some fans out there,don’t even have a life.They even stalk the idols…WTH?

  209. Jules catchthatkdrama

    Oh God, THANK YOU for being so completely reasonable about the T-ara ‘scandal’! I’ve read so many posts vilifying T-ara and demanding that they break up/lose all endorsements now and in the future/grovel to Hwayoung and the public/die a painful death that I’m getting a little freaked out. It reminds me of what happened to Tablo (albeit not as extremely hateful *just yet*) and that was… horrifying.

    • Jules catchthatkdrama

      Just to add: if Hwayoung *was* bullied, I in no way think that’s okay. Whether it’s physical or emotional, bullying *is* abuse and is extremely painful and traumatic. BUT as you’ve already stated, no-one who isn’t directly involved in the situation at hand knows the truth, and probably never will. (and seriously, the ‘outraged netizens’ complaining about bullying and then doing the same thing to T-ara *whilst* complaining about it? I don’t have enough hands for all the facepalming.)

  210. Well I got into kpop through variety shows, meaning without the personality I cannot get myself to listen/ like a group. :/
    So, how´s it better to still listen to someone who might have slapped a fellow member in the face, instead of listening to someone who hit his girlfriend that might have severely provoked said boyfriend (from what I read people saw Rihanna throw his carkeys out of the car)?
    Bottom line about those incidents: IT´S ALL HERESAY at some point.
    I just don´t get why you take all the time to make exactly that clear and then make an exception with Chris Brown.
    (P.s. I don´t even like him, so just sayin…)

    Would love an answer! :3 By no means I want to attack anyone or play down anything.

    • Here’s the difference IMHO: Jiyeon slapping Hwayoung is a rumour. Chris Brown using Rihanna for a punchbag is not. Now, there is a certain amount of likeness that you place in artists when you like their music – however, I think it is up to each person to say who they like and what music do they like – they are completely different.

      In my opinion, for example, I love Amy Winehouse songs – but that does not mean I condone drug using and overdosing, in fact I disliked Amy herself, but her music was great. Some people did not like her at all and therefore did not like their music. Valid opinions. Nothing is ever right or wrong.

      I do hate Chris Brown and therefore, his music. This might seem like double-standards, but hey, I cannot get past the fact that he beat up a woman so violent and brutally.

      • So basically we are comming to terms where we say whether like an artist because of his or her music or personality/ or rather actions (a lot more fitting) is up to everyone but (Chris Brown) there is that one exception, that might throw your actual motives overboard.

        But in the end you would have to be consequent at some point, don´t you think? At some point you should stop supporting people for their actions, even though you might like their music/art/ whatever. If people are constantly drunk, drugged or beat up people or bully them, they should be pulled back on earth through the lack of sales or the fans that run away. If you don´t those people might end up getting the feeling of being almighty and that they can get away with everything.

        Coming back to T-ara I think things wouldn´t have escalated in that extent if it weren´t for the mysterious twitter messages. Half of the assumptions were made based on ambiguous tweets which of course, gives the impressions of bullying.
        Of course it might not have gone so far as really slapping Hwayoung in the face, this leaves a bitter taste because they could have easily made things right through direct and clear messages. And I personally think that a little bit of truth is certainly behind all this. (although as S&M said, the concept of changing groups is definitely the origin. at some point it´s inevitable that personalities clash).

        • I definitely agree. A liked artist’s actions might eventually become a reflection on what you like as well – if they do well, you become proud and like them even more – if they misbehave, you start unliking them. It comes to a point when your love of music doesn’t let you look past an artist’s actions, I think. Chris Brown is a perfect example.

          Regarding T-ara, I definitely agree that the twitter messages plus the wording of CCM’s press statements generated a lot of confusion, rumours and assumptions. This fueled by the idol mentality and people taking sides like they are knights in shining armor, makes people forget that they are a team at work after all. They’re bound to have disagreements and clashes – and these have to get solved by management one way of the other.

  211. Simon and Martina, I was curious, how DID you two get into kpop? What was the first song(s) you heard that got you into this incredibly intricate world? o vo

  212. It seems like it’s not so much the fighting thing or the jealousy thing, every group and every person will experience that, and seems to be a talking point about how they overcome it and it makes the group stronger, etc. It’s that there was some kind of lingering, consistent tension that should have been taken care of but never was. Even taking the internet fan filter into account, where everything is hyper scrutinized, it seemed to go beyond jealousy and into passive aggressive quasi-bullying. I remember high school, and that’s what, from just the articles I’ve seen, the other girls of the group were doing to Hwayoung; it feels like the group never tried to accept Hwayoung and get along, or even simply as the new employee, and just put up the “girl wall.”

    I can only compare it to other girl groups, and in Hwayoung’s case she didn’t seem to really catch on and become a Suzy or Minah in terms of skyrocketing popularity, etc. so it feels even more like it lends to the bullying angle. And in the case of E-Young, there seemed to be no resentment of her from After School. Which leads to a something I wonder……

    It would be interesting to get you guys’ take on the CEO apparently being a real jerk, not just in this case but in general having a bad reputation in the industry. He always seems to be where the drama is.

  213. all i could see is the dark circles on simon’s eyes! Plz put some bb on dat :(

  214. Word.

    I only just heard about this T-ara thing, so I find it convenient that you guys posted this, giving pretty much an objective POV. I’m also glad that you explained the roles of a maknae, and I can definitely see how that could be seen as harsh from an outsider’s perspective. No matter what has actually happened, I wish them all the best and hope that they each continue to be successful in their dreams.

    Things like this is why I lost interest in going to Kpop “news” sites. When the Block B incident got out of hand with all of the major miscommunication, I just couldn’t get back into following/scanning through the stories. And I was never the type to watch any extra type of shows documenting KPop stars’ lives or whatever. My friends are into the variety shows and such, so it’s kind of awkward when they fangirl talk about these things, and I’m just like… meh. Like you guys said, I hardly know any of these peoples’ names, so I don’t have a desire to know a bunch of random things about them. Just give me music I can vibe/dance/”sing along” to, and I’m content.

  215. Thank you very much! I feel there is someone who feels the same way as me! FIGHTING!

  216. I know next to nothing about kpop or this entire t-ara controversy, but I must say that you guys answered this question with WISDOM, INTELLIGENCE, AND TACT. Bravo.

  217. Not exactly sure why you think physical trauma to be so much worse than emotional trauma but ok…

  218. THANK YOU for being more realistic about not only this situation, but about ALL situations. It’s really frustrating how all those “fans” don’t take into account all the requirements to be a k-pop idol and just start pointing fingers everywhere once something bad happens. Glad you guys made this video to educate the fans that go way overboard with scandals.

  219. yup, i care about the music, and t-ara makes a good music, even though its just an “u-heee u-heee”

  220. Thank you Simon and Martina :) I completely agree with how you guys feel, and I’m grateful that you two are willing to be a calm and sensible voice in the sometimes insensitive and crazy world of internet fans. The music is the most important part, but I think everyone hopes that the groups that produce that music can also get along well.

  221. You guys just hit the nail on the head. Not only are they with their band members 24/7 it can be harder when (like with T-ara) a few members have been together since the beginning and have had time to create a strong friendship and then all of a sudden there are new members being added, that they then have to pretend they are long-standing best friends with, despite only having just met them and their only interactions being at times of stress a.k.a. Non-stop dance practice, song recordings and non-stop TV appearances and interviews.

    I think people are judging far too quickly, especially as no-one knows the whole truth. People were calling for Block B to be disbanded after their interview in Thailand, despite it really not being that bad and the interview itself being spliced together for maximum ‘Oh my God’. Netizens scare me sometimes.

    Simon, Martina. Thank you for being wonderful, honest you. ^_^

  222. thank you guys for this, things are getting really bad with T-ARA :x

  223. I always love how you’re honest with everything. Honestly the whole ordeal with T-ara just got waaaay out of hand. One of the things I don’t like about Korea is the whole maknae and seniority thing. Sometimes it seems like its just abusing the youngest because of their age. Not all the time, but sometimes it seems unfair to me. Heck, I’m the youngest of seven kids and having six brothers and sisters sucks at times. I couldn’t even imagine having to work with them, every single day and night, and they’re my own family!!! I respect all those huge groups who can make it work, because I’d probably go insane. Maybe T-ara was abusing their power and Hwayoung just snapped or maybe she just wasn’t respectful enough. Like you said “WE’LL NEVER KNOW”. I feel bad for all those kpop groups who ALL work hard but only one member is known by everyone, 4 Minute, Miss A, etc. Personally I don’t like certain members of some groups but that doesn’t mean I’m gonna stop listening to their music. The whole reason i got into kpop was because of the music itself, not the group members. Anyways, totally respect you guys for giving your honest opinions!!

    • Its just a rite of passage. It can go a bit out there to teaching them too. Like respect and etiquette and patience. Like, squires I think it was. The boys who wanted to be Knights but have to start off by being a Knights servant so to speak. Not that Hwayoung is a servant. Its more that she has to pay her dues and work her way up that ladder just like the people before her.

    • I’ve always found the hierarchical aspect of Korean society difficult to understand. I’m around Koreans a lot and have witnessed a lot of it through living with Koreans or near Koreans (and being married to one). At first I’d be extra nice to the youngest because I’d feel bad that they were treated that way or were made to do things for the others. I realised after a while that I wasn’t helping the situation and was putting my own cultural ideals on them. It can be difficult to understand but I eventually began respecting the system because it actually works.

  224. The Maknae costum thing don’t apply to Changmin of TVXQ and Kyuhyun of Super Junior. We know they bully their hyungs, a lot! LOL They do whatever they want, specially Changmin hahahahahahaha The older, Jae, was scared of him ^^

  225. I completely agree with this but I do have to say that as much as it is about the music, without the group, there wouldn’t be any music so I have to care about them a little personally lol Although I do agree that taking it out of context can become too crazy…

    And omg the farting songs haha and I love the pink in Martina’s hair!!! <3 <3 <3

  226. Great! Thanks :) I think you’re right! :3

  227. I think you guys described it very well. K-pop idols go through such a hard time, having to work so much but they do it because performing and making music makes them happy. I think it’s really sad that a scandal, which are often not that bad as they describe it on the news and gossip magazines, can ruin an idol. I have no idea what really happened but I kinda feel bad for all of them. I don’t understand why fans suddenly start hating a k-pop band when they have done something which often can’t be proved to be true.

  228. You guys are the best :)
    i loved the whole farting thing XD

  229. I really wanted to THANK YOU guys for what you did there :)
    As a T-ara’s fan/Queens (I don’t really like the fangroup name >.<), I was kind of upset with everybody's starting to believe in the rumors and all those kind of things. Then came the disband petition, I was like: « You've got to be kidding me… »
    I like how you guys emphasize the fact that we actually know nothing about the "real" thing, it's true :D And, I think people should realize it as well ;)
    Anyway, my point is: Thank you :D

  230. ~~oh yeah truelala!!…this is like the best eatyourkimchi video(for me) eveeeer!!…..Simon&Martina, thanks for making this vid!!=^.^=……pipz(kpop idols are humans tooo)… totalllly luv this video!!^^

  231. This has nothing to do with the topic, but is Simon wearing make up? Hmmm…

  232. As former teachers, how much preperation for university studies do korean students get in high school and how does the educational system differ from high school to university?

  233. “We can resolve our disputes with snuggles and kisses. How do kpop idols resolve their disputes?”

    Lol I think a lot of fangirls hope that they resolve their disputes the same way XD

  234. Ohgod, finally words of wisdom!! Blessya!

  235. There is a reason Sone don’t want SNSD to have twitter or facebook accounts. You fight, you make up. You do that couple hundred time, but you keep it all within the team. They are human. The responsible thing to do is to confront the person who is giving you grief. Work it out among yourself. Stabbing someone in the back, in public through Twitter is childish. I am sure Martina don’t throw Simon’s crap on the webpage (smile).

  236. It’s just SOOO FISHY regarding the comments from CCM. I really wish you’d talk more bout him. He has known to be mean and horrible and his last statements have reflected this. He outright said she got fired for refusing to go on one performance. For the bullying aspect there has just been sooooooo much evidence and including a video of them during their t-ara lovey dovey taping in tokyo where hwayoung fell and all the members but Boram and Hyomin helped and not even right away, they just watched. T-ara has been my favorite but with the evidence and the amount pilled, I feel it’s turning a blind eye if one hasn’t noticed that as well. <——–that last statement probably came out harsh but idk how to re-word it :/

    • Regarding those “evidence,” you must be talking about the things on netizenbuzz page but even the author of that page said that the proof was doubtful. As for the lovey-dovey video, I don’t know, I never watched it but I’m sure all the girls were in shock or perhaps they thought she would stand up herself and continue. I’ve seen many KPOP idol fails and the members always picked themselves up unless they were too hurt or something.

  237. I can only agree with you :) Hope a lot of people will watch this video and wakes up. Since how you said. We are only humans. Everyone makes mistakes and if they couldn´t be together it is only good that they separated. Since we don´t know what really happened between them we should let it be.

  238. so what i got out of this is that Simon farts Gee by SNSD…

    haha just kidding great job! i agree! I never was a fan of T-ara’s music (i said music not group cause i dont know them) so i never really have seen them outside besides dream high 2 but the whole thing must suck for everyone .. it seems like both sides were just firing away sloppily so…

  239. Itʻs not just girls that are “catty”, male idols said they sometimes fought and punched members of the same group.

    • Male idols may fight as much as female idols, but a male fight seems more… “honest”? hahaha I mean, women even if they fight, they don’t say everything that they really think, men are socially much more simple, right? xD
      And men don’t have PMT LOL

      • But there’s problems by being a woman who doesn’t hold their tongue too. I’m often called too blunt or bitchy because I lay it down as it is. People will stop talking to me because I’ll tell it to them straight. And thats why I get along better with the male species. Haha

        • I know what you’re saying… I won’t say that most of my friends are men because they’re not xD
          But my closest female friends tell me what they think and vice versa
          The ones that I’m not so close I just don’t say everything that I think. So I’m kinda in the middle of both xD

    • Male idols may fight as much as female idols, but male fights seems more… “honest”? I mean, women even if they fight, they don’t tell everything they think. Men are socially more simple, right? xD
      Plus men don’t have PMT LOL

  240. What is the first farting song? anybody?
    I know the second one is Gee and the last one is Rain’s song

  241. at first i thought it wasnt necessary for you guys to comment at all on this subject… but then while watching the video i thought it was VERY appropriate. you guys did an excellent job! if only the reports on idol groups like T-ara could be just as unbiased as you both.

  242. Amen… finally that’s a good explanation… you are the best guys

  243. I think the rain fart will become my new ringtone XD

  244. Quote of the year: “…the idolatry that goes on, how fans get so caught up in the lives of artists, and FORGET ABOUT THE MUSIC ITSELF.” Totally agree!!

  245. I think that the one who is handling this the WORST is the company, CCM. The band members (now & former) are acting pretty respectable considering everything but the official stuff & interviews from CCM is really just making things worse. They seem to be the ones feeding the trolls the most. IMHO. If someone just muzzles CCM I’m sure things will quiet down.

  246. I always like your videos, but this week I want you to know I liked it particularly because of the Chris Brown comment! :) Eat Your Kimchi Rocks My Socks! p.s. What did Dr. Meemersworth get her doctorate in?

  247. “What we don’t like ABOUT Kpop, though, is the idolatry that goes on, how fans get so caught up in the lives of artists, and forget about the music itself. Whenever we meet a Kpop idol we always get comments like “how did you not faint or scream when you met blah blah” but to us, they’re just normal people.”


    • I have a close friend that went to a concert in a America for a very famous Kpop concert. She had a hotel room in the same building as the idols did. A lot of crazy fans were stalking them (the Kpop group) and they (the idols) were very unfriendly when she was trying to enter the elevator one day. Some crazy fans had already entered the elevator and were squealing and crying in the corner. She just said coldly that she didn’t care if she could enter the elevator or not and the kpop group changed their attitude in an instant. They became very apologetic. The kpop groups also apprechiate fans that are controlled and not overly familiar. We all feel uncomfortable with people that act too familiar with us, right?!

      • Yes, I totally agree. I actually quoted that, because that is the way I think. Sometimes we just idolize something or someone so much that when they do something we don’t like it dissapoint us, without thinking if that was the right thing to do. I happends with lots of my friend actually that they can’t see things objectively when we are talking of certain topics like actors and musicians, and i’m talking about people in their 20′ and 30′. So they got too carried away with details and they loose the focus on what happening, on what we are discussing and they just answer “Well i love him/her so don’t try to bash him/her.” (end of the conversation) Sorry i got too carried away. :S:S

        Appart from that I loved your friends attitude :D:D, We need more people like that! And prove to the idols that there are some coherent fans! jajajja.

        Sorry if there are misspellings, i’m a spanish speaker andi suck at english.

  248. I really love how you both approached such a internet sensationalized topic. Personal lives of people be them celebrity or not are just that, personal. This is just he said she said on a very public level. Yes the music industry has made it so artist are comodities more than people but that does not make it so that we should be so involved in their lives. Kudo’s to you two!

  249. A really well thought out video, i completely agree with you guys, it should just be left alone. I really hate it when fans get caught up in rumours and then it explodes into just craziness and scary threats, i mean this anywhere not just Korea. I did however remember this article about the Stalking of Dan Lee a.k.a Tablo which really did scare me the lengths the people went to when they got caught up in rumour mills.
    The Chris Brown thing at the end god i just want to Hive Five you guys for that he’s a disgusting excuse for a human being.
    Here is the Tablo article from Wired Magazine its long but if anybody on here hasn’t read or heard about its an eye opening shocking read.

  250. exactly wat u think ….. *end of story*

  251. I totally agree, Thank you for wording it much more articulately than I could of.

  252. Awesome TLDR guys! I think a lot of people really do forget that Idols are human sometimes. That is the ONE thing that bothers me among Kpop-Fandoms. I am an adult fan with a job and all that jazz so when I see people going nutzo about stuff like this is makes me questions humanity on a small scale.

    People are human, let them make mistakes, they aren’t going to love everyone and get along like happy bunnies and unicorns. They have to put on a face in front of the camera and be professional, and this isn’t the first or last time the media will make a mountain out of a hill. Regardless enjoy the music! That’s what brought you to kpop anyways in my opinion.

    Meh….Regardless of the dramaz I like the music!! *scurries off to listen to MBLAQ*

  253. you guys were awesome… the “point” abt GIRLS ARE CATTY is true. thank you~^^
    hope T-ara will stay strong.

  254. Wonderfully answered and informative TL;DR as always. Thank you for being such good role models by teaching all your viewers respect! D: <3 Please adopt me.

  255. yay for an honest and healthy opinion on idols!

  256. OMG I’ve just imagined Taemin farting XDDDD THANKS A LOT GUISE!

  257. That.. was a lot of farting.. xDDD

  258. i like u guys more and more!! keep up the good work!! Aja, Aja, Hwaiting^^

  259. An interesting perspective… and I agree. If only most netizens thought this way.

  260. Love song farts… that’s just awesome.

  261. ooohh my family i is mostly females….. yeah cat fights can get really ugly, specially in large groups since people will take sides.

  262. Oh thanks so much for this. I will go watch it in a bit, but just wanted to say this: My head has been spinning with all the various “news” on this controversy and in the end I feel like I haven’t formed an opinion on ANYTHING except–oh dang, I really love “Day by Day” and when I caught it on the Kpop charts I voted for it a lot. It inspired me to go find “Lovey Dovey” and I ended up liking it a lot too. Now I’m just sad because whether or not they disband, whether or not the rumors are true, and whether or not Hwayoung leaves, the music they make won’t be the same. :(

    And I really agree with what you said about snuggles and kisses. Some of the best parts of making up when I get snippy with the hubs. :)

  263. i love kpop song…and that’s it! :)

  264. YAY.. I was waiting for this <3 ILY GUYS :D

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