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Sexism in Korea

March 21, 2013

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Hay! You Nice Nasties: we have to apologize to you for the long disclaimers when we do serious videos like this. We’re sorry if it’s annoying. Honestly, it annoys us to no end, and it makes filming videos like this very difficult for us. But, if we don’t put these disclaimers up, then we get harassed by idiots with a lethal combination of:

+ self-appointed Justice Police badge
+ horrendous listening comprehension skills
+ love of taking things out of context
+ passion for getting offended

The problem is that stupid commenters turn our comment section into a huge fight between viewers, and we’d rather people take the time to leave awesome/intelligent comments. There is no problem with disagreeing with what we’re saying, just do it AFTER you actually watch the video and without so much profanity! YAY!

So, now that that’s out of the way, Hello Nice Nasties! Thank you for keeping us sane! We’re here today talking about sexism in Korea, and we’re sharing our experiences on the matter. We’re fortunate enough to be in a situation in which we don’t have to deal with it often. We have our own business, created our own work environment, and have our own staff. In fact, majority of our staff is female. It’s only the animals that are male in the studio (ha!). We don’t have any bosses that overlook what we’re doing, and so we’re free to be in our own little creative internet bubble, so we’re not really the best source of stories of sexism in Korea, though – like we mentioned in the video – we have experienced it, but only when we dealt with other companies.

A couple of things we didn’t mention in the video.

1) If you really want to understand Korean culture, you’ll need to do a lot of reading on Confucianism. Luckily for me, I (Martina) studied both English and East Asian Philosophy for five years in University, and both Simon and I studied world religion, so we knew what we were getting into when we moved to Korea. Understanding the Confucian value system will help you better understand why Korea is so patriarchal and respectful of their elders. The problem that I think is happening is that modern Korea is in a struggle to keep the positive aspect of it’s Confucian ways alive, while still changing some of the more antiquated values, such as the role of women in society.

2) We didn’t know how to talk about it in an easily digestible video format, is an experience one of our friends had at work. She and her team work on computers all day in the office. One day they got a new manager, a dude. First day of his reign as manager, he had a staff meeting in which he told all of the women that they had to dress prettier and wear more makeup. A few things:

1) HOW THE EFF DOES THAT EFFECT WRITING STUFF ON THE COMPUTER?
2) How was he not fired immediately for being such a pig?
3) HOW MUCH DID I WANT HIM TO SAY THAT TO MY FACE!!! *Martina flexes*

We were totally appalled when we heard it, as was our friend. Now, we haven’t worked for companies in other parts of the world, so we don’t know if this would be acceptable where you’re from, nor do we know if this is a common occurrence in Korea or not, but that wouldn’t fly in Canada.

This is just an anecdote, and that’s really all we can offer when we talk about this. There are sites online that can tell you more about sexism in Korea, where they can give you stats and whatnot. Stories we tell or stories our friends tell us aren’t representative of Korea as a whole. We could just have had some odd experiences, after all, so we can’t form conclusions off of what happened to us. It’s the same reason I don’t like talking about my terrible experience at my school. I don’t want people thinking that all schools in Korea are bad, and – in this case – we don’t want people thinking that all companies in Korea are like this.

We have heard, though, different stories from different people about staff dinners in which women are expected to pour drinks for men. Can anyone corroborate this? We don’t know anything about it, but we heard about it here and there and want to know if you’ve experienced anything like this, and how you feel about it.

One thing we didn’t mention, though, and we’re not sure if it’s relevant or not, but we’re happy that Korea has a female president. We’re not saying anything about her policies. We don’t follow politics enough to know how she’s doing. We’re just happy to see a woman as president. It sets a good example, not only for people in Korea but also for the rest of the world.

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Sexism in Korea

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  1. That’s definitely possible, but I am 5’8″ and I didn’t really have this problem when I worked in Shanghai, China (and trust me – I was the tallest by far in most of those rooms). But I have found in the town where I currently live in Canada, that a lot of Mennonite men won’t talk with me, or look at me directly while talking to me, because they are too distracted by my looks because I am different from the women they are used to (not that I’m any great beauty or anything). I think that, more than her height, it’s that Martina is exotic (blond – blue-eyed) and very pretty and that the men may be worried about being mesmerized since they probably only ever dreamed of meeting such a woman and then will end up looking stupid. Sounds crazy, but I’ve seen it happen quite a few times with Asian men of my acquaintance.

    I don’t think that this is what is happening MOST of the time with respect to Martina, but it probably happens just as often as the height intimidation. If anything, I would think that Simon’s height would be more intimidating. You really forget about the height difference until you see Simon and Martina together out on the street for a WANK without the stepstool – LOL!

    3 years ago
    • Sorry, no. I live in Milverton, Ontario – a horse tie-up at every business in town. It’s even got 5 different levels of Mennonite, including hard core oldskool open horse buggy only type. It’s all in the wiki page. I looked up Niverville’s wiki page, seems like a nice town.

      Cyber_3 – likely we would have a lot of stories to swap ;) it’s SWAT team time….er…I mean harvest time!

      3 years ago
  2. omg I’m Mexican too and the same thing happened in my family! Ever since I was a kid, my mom made it a point to feed the kids first, and then she would make the men feed themselves. She would always make parties buffet style so everyone has to make their own plate. :D

    3 years ago
  3. Canada had Kim Campbell as Prime Minister, after which she was completely abandoned by her party and out of office in about 4 months. The entire ordeal wreaks of sexism.

    3 years ago
  4. I think it’s a little unfair to dismiss the struggles these women have faced by only tying their success to a man… I believe that these women are all self-made, even for privileged women, it’s not easy to achieve such positions in such patriarchal and sexist societies.

    3 years ago
    • I get your point, and I don’t think they didn’t struggle. But without a big name among their close relatives, they wouldn’t be where they are.

      3 years ago
  5. Very interesting, well thought-out TL;DR! Really interesting to hear how you guys have been treated as foreigners versus some of your friends and staff, etc.

    Been a really interesting couple of TL;DRs! I was very interested and happy about last week’s as well. It was something I definitely had been wondering about.

    It’s rough that even as a co-owner of EYK Martina is still treated very differently. It’s rough, too, that even in Canada I have friends who are in the video game industry and the girls are treated as having opinions that are less valuable than the men’s. (I have 2 male friends and 2 female friends, and even the guys notice it. The CEO even asked one of the girls to do his son’s homework/contest entry because “he really wanted to win”. WTH??) So, very sadly, in Canada we’re still not up to snuff as much as we should be, but I think that also has a lot to do with the industry they’re in.

    Augh, that wrist-dragging in Korean dramas always drives me nuts… It looks really painful! I can’t believe that bouncers even DRAG women into the clubs… I would be so terrified! Not only that, but how easily could one be abducted if it just LOOKED like they were dragging her into a club and actually was taking her somewhere else? To people witnessing it, it wouldn’t appear “bad”, would it? The idea of that is very frightening. Also kind of curious – when they drag women into the club, are the women still expected to pay? I mean, they’re practically doing the club a favor, it seems; it would be ridiculous if they still had to pay to get into a place where they’d been brought whether they liked it or not.

    3 years ago
  6. The bit about how the host would not shake Martina’s hand reminded me about how my Grandpa would never talk to me directly. If he ever had a question about me (he didn’t have many, he usually just asked about my brother), he would just ask my dad. I would be right there, he could have easily asked me! So we never actually spoke to each other.

    3 years ago
  7. You should watch Gentleman Dignity :) It’s really good, and it’s the opposite of Secret Garden (I never finished it)

    3 years ago
    • I’m the opposite and couldn’t disagree more. All the men in that show had the power in the relationship while the women were running around being silly, and being shown to not act with a brain.

      3 years ago
  8. Get ready for a long post

    I am a Korean raised in the States and if there is one thing that sticks out to me about sexism in Korea is marriage.

    Simon and Martina I think you know what I am talking about. Coming from the Korean community I am surrounded by they expect me and several other of my close Korean female friends to marry off in the evening of their twenties. I apparently must start to look for a beau when I am around 26 and if I do not find one until, the latest, when I am 31 then I am considered an old maid. Yes you heard me there is a time limit for Korean women. Where Korean women are encouraged to go to college pursue your dreams and earn your way in life until you turn 26. When you age into the twilight years of your twenties you must struggle to find someone to earn a living with or for you.

    This way of thought is changing where we see some celebrities like Lee Hyori and Uhm Jung Hwa are well past that age limit and are not married off yet and it is okay for them. 2ne1’s Dara and Bom are also past the age limit and many fans love them and want them to continue their careers. But there is a pressure for them to get married. Other female celebrities like Son Dam Bi, Ka Hee, Gummy, BoA, Kim Tae Hee, Bada, Song Hye Kyo, and the members of Brown Eyed Girls and many more are pressured to get married and settle down like Kim Hee Sun and recently Jun Ji Hyun. There is even more stigma towards divorced women like Ko Hyun Jung, Yang Pa, and Choi Ji Woo. Now Korea is changing in the way they think towards marriage and divorce as three women mentioned before are living very successful lives and are taking things in stride. But one of the attacks toward President Park Geun Hye during the race was that she was a single woman with no children. ‘How can she lead a country when she has never fostered and nurtured a family?’ Hopefully these women will change mainstream Korea to think differently about gender norms in terms of marriage and divorce where women do not need to marry to lean on a man but marry to have a man or woman compliment and support them in their careers.

    3 years ago
    • Yes ^^

      3 years ago
    • that “marriage age” doesn’t just apply for koreans, I think it’s the eastern mentality in general … high school>college>job>marriage all before you hit 30 … everyone has to go by that handbook , getting married earlier is even better … marriage= future .. forget your goals and dreams, they’re just accessories/luxuries ..

      *sigh* I have to admit, am an advocate for being independent and getting married only when you find that right special someone you actually want to settle with… However, living in a society where the norm is to get married as early as possible, that stupid mentality starts to get to you, you start questioning maybe you got it all wrong… but when am online and I find people who do agree with my out-of-the-norms thoughts, it gets me back to my senses…

      3 years ago
      • I agree with the above views. Marriage is important and it’s wonderful if you do it right. But getting married at a certain age or in a certain way because you feel pressured by culture, family, or religion, or because you don’t know what else to do with your life, or because you just want someone else to take care of you is a bad idea.

        3 years ago
    • I was born and raised in the US but my mother is from Cambodia. It has been ingrained in me that men do one thing one way and women do another. It’s just a really big part of the culture and I was expected to be a “proper” lady and acting a certain way. That included how i dress, how i sit, how i eat, how speak, and walk. I’m 26 now and my mother swears if i dont feed my fiance, he’ll leave me and I’ll never find anyone again. How tragic -_- I’m 26 year old but if we were to split, I’d be the old maid in my family. Its seems like her generation honestly believes women need men in their lives for it to be complete and whole.

      Now i don’t believe you need a man but there have been occasion when I’m in conversion with older female friends and those same ideas have slipped out of me. The first time my friend (who is in her late thirties) told me she doesnt want kids, I was so taken aback and shocked. Don’t you want to get married? Why wouldn’t you want children? Don’t you want to live in a house with yur and and kids?I actually said all that and then when i stopped to think about it, I was so confused as to why I would say those thing when know there is nothing wrong with what she wants and in fact, its actually what i preferr myself. I’ve caught myself saying “because you’re a girl” or “because they’re older” to younger cousin even though I know thats not right but it just slips out. It was an automatic rsponse.
      These ideas and beliefs are so strong in the culture and they are being passed down generation after generation even if you don’t realize it.

      3 years ago
    • Oh god, I have to deal with this all the time. I’m currently 20 and am Pre-Med which means that (hoping that all goes well) I’ll have 2 more years of undergrad, 4 years of med school and another 4-6 years for residency/specialization which will mean that I’ll be all done by the time I’m 30-32. My dad, for the past 2 years, has been trying to get me to pick a different occupation. He’s been trying to get me to give up on my medicine and go for pharmacy because “you’ll be around 26 when you graduate and then you can get married. If you go for medicine, you’ll be too old and then how are you supposed to find a husband?” Every time we’re in the house together for an extended period of time, he’ll bring this up over and over again, “So you’re still staying with medicine? Look at your cousin though. She’s done with school and already working and she’s only 24. Her parents are already looking around for a husband.” I mean, you’d think my parents would be happy that I found something that I think I might enjoy and that I focused my attention on something livable (I was going to go into art before that) but no, they don’t care because doctors require too much schooling and that means that I’ll be too old for anyone to want to marry me.

      They’ve started to back off a bit, but I’ve heard them talking to each other about trying to find someone when I’m in med school…

      3 years ago
      • Wow kudos to you for going into medicine :). Keep it up Doc ;). At the end of the day, love and respect your parents for wanting the best for you. But realize that what “the best” is may look different to them than it does to you. You are the only one that can really make that decision. Speaking from a hard won sense of identity, be who you are. You’re the only one that can be yourself, the world needs more people being whole, especially passionate people with skills like yours. (dang, art & medicine, what can’t you do?)

        If they’re anything like my parents, if you keep going after your goal, after awhile they may be less combative and more supportive when they see how much you love what you do. That’s my personal experience and belief.

        If they want to help you “find someone” why not let them? Could you make a deal with them that romance is important but secondary to your goals? Something like the occassional dinner date is fine, but my studies come first? Although my family isn’t Asian, so culturally things might be somewhat different with family responsibilities to parents.

        3 years ago
      • do older people never marry? What happens if someone gets divorced or a spouse dies? Does that person never remarry? People elsewhere do. But considering that there is a huge push for marriage by a certain age, I understand that your choices would be fewer, but what is the ratio of men to women in Korea? Is there far more females than males? I hope you are not pressured into dropping out of school or changing majors just to get a mate. I cross my fingers for you.

        3 years ago
      • Wow that sounds intense. Keep strong!

        3 years ago
    • I’m not korean but I just had a huge row with my mother a few days ago because she was all “now that you’ve finished high school you have to start thinking of the future! After you finish college, it will be the right time for you to get married after finding a decent job! I need to start keeping an eye out for good looking men from now!” that was everything she said. word to word because it’s still ringing in my head. dammit i’m 17! i feel like they raised me to get married or something..

      3 years ago
      • What makes you happy and whole as a person should be your first priority as an individual. While your mother is from a different time, with different perspectives and goals, she is not you. Understanding between two people-especially a parent and child-is very difficult, but with your mother and you it’ll take a lot more work because there is some unwritten rule in most people’s minds that if they are your kid then obviously they will be like you. It’s not true. You are 17 and you have the world ahead of you, go and explore, discover yourself and find out what it is you want, even if it’s just pizza for next Tuesday. Just remember that loving who you are is what it’ll take for you to lead a happy life and maybe one day bring happiness to another.

        3 years ago
  9. Omg !! Martina !! That’s just so rude . Awwhh Hun , you just stay strong and firm . Your an awesome , beautiful ,strong , talented and wonderful woman . Never let how they treat you affect you . I hope Korea is changing for the better cause lots of foreigners are actually really interested to visit Korea . Including me !! ^0^ . Hope to see you guys someday . Stay positive guys ;)

    3 years ago
  10. So you guys are close to Suzy? woah that’s so daebak :D

    3 years ago
  11. Awesome video guys! Very interesting topic :)

    3 years ago
  12. THANK YOU!!! I’m sorry you had to do two more-serious, rile-inviting topics in a row (but way to work in butt-scratching to make it fun). Also thanks for the tips on reading up on Confucianism – I wouldn’t have known to do that. And I’ll look up other sites now on sexism in Korea, but I really wanted a first-hand perspective on it from people who I think (through copious video watching) share similar values as me. Thanks again!!! You are awwwwesome! AND Nasty. :P

    3 years ago
  13. I really dislike the fact you have to be so apologetic in these kind of videos that touch upon serious subject matter. I understand the reason of course, some people can be plain stupid, but it takes away from the force of your legitimate criticisms when you always have to be putting up disclaimers and watching every word you say.

    I am amazed by how positive you two always are, in the face of any situation. As an Asian woman (not Japanese despite my screen name) I am infuriated by all types of sexist and gender discriminatory behavior. The fact that I know many in South Korea are extremely sexist and would consider me an inferior (mostly the men) if they met me keeps me from fully enjoying the positive cultural aspects.

    However, with regards to the person who would not shake Martina’s hand- skinship between opposite genders is discouraged in some cultures. Perhaps the person thought from a purely ethnocentric perspective and did not want to touch a woman he was not close with, especially since her husband was standing right next to her?

    But the letters being addressed to the guy only reeks of patriarchy. Martina is a strong woman and co-owner of EYK! XD

    And Simon, you are wonderful man. More men should be like you.

    3 years ago
    • I agree, it does make their argument less fierce when they have to disclaim everything… But then, just think, if they had somehow said something that inadvertently targeted your country (or just anything that hit you personally–no matter how true or false), you can’t deny that for just a half a second you would be offended… And that’s where the people with no self-control flock to the comments to stand up for themselves or their country…
      Lastly, agree with everything else in your post, too… I didn’t think about how other cultures might view that skinship, and you’re right–more men should be like Simon!

      3 years ago
    • I agree about the disclaimers; people are gonna idiots, regardless of the fact that you tried to make them understand that your videos are just your opinion and experiences. It’s just annoying >_>

      3 years ago
  14. Dear Jesus. Don’t even get me started on that wrist grabbing crap. They’re like “I have two choices. Both are attractive, one is smart, funny, cute and TREATS ME WITH RESPECT. While the OTHER guy is smart, funny, cute and is physically and verbally abusive. I’ll pick the OTHER guy!” Really? REALLY? REAAAALLLLY!? She is obviously trying to get away from you. She is obviously uncomfortable. She obviously HATES THIS. Yet YOU keep putting your hands on her. FUUUUUUCK YOUUUUUU!

    I’m watching Pasta and I was hoping that he would be (outside work) the way he was with her when they first met, and NO SUCH LUCK. Granted, she gets even and seems to enjoy his torment. And when she doesn’t, she fucking TELLS HIM. She’s like “WHY DO YOU ACT LIKE THAT!? DON’T BE A DIIIIIIIIIICK!” And I’m like THANK YOU!

    3 years ago
    • Oh, I picked up on the kdrama relationship rule really fast. The heroine always ends up with the guy who she can be of most “help” to. The one who will be a better man because of her. The smart, funny, cute guy who treats her with respect doesn’t “need” her to make him a better man as much as the other one does. So while he’s very nice, he doesn’t allow her to fulfill her true womanly potential, which is to help a man fulfill his full potential.
      Yeah. Whatevs. I want a man who helps me fulfill MY full potential and I’ll try to help him with his. It’s a shared responsibility. I always think basic chemistry provides the best analogy for this. So many cultures think a relationship between a man and a woman should be an ionic bond. One atom happily gives to another. Yet most women want a covalent bond. Two atoms share their electrons to mutually benefit.

      3 years ago
    • I had given up on k-drama after watching the same plot line over and over. But I really liked Queen In Hyun’s Man, for once the girl chose the nice guy.

      Sexism seems prevalent in every county, albeit by varying degrees.

      3 years ago
    • Yeah same here, I was glad that Pasta has a character who pointed out how much of a jerk the guy is. Granted, I still don’t see how they are suppose to be a couple, or why she even liked him at all. Oh he helped her with a goldfish, cute, then he fired her. I would would of sued his sorry ass, not try and chase it.

      3 years ago
    • To be honest, in several dramas I’ve watched so far, the other guy(that she always ends up picking) won’t even be nice or funny or cute. He’ll just be a total jerk, and she’ll still pick him for God knows what reason. I did really like watching Secret Garden though; the idea of the vulnerable weak female and dominant alpha male is definitely a lot less apparent in that show.

      3 years ago
      • i see the same thing! the nice guy never wins in k-dramas! it’s like they’re teaching their men if you’re a jerk you’ll get the girl. i don’t think i’ve ever seen a k-drama where the nice guy has gotten the girl.

        3 years ago
  15. Something I’ve noticed is that in America companies have even recently been sexist, but have been getting better (especially if the woman or women are strong and stand up for themselves). For instance, my mom when she started working at her office (she’s the only woman CPA at her firm, while the other two women are kind of like secretaries) she was forced to wear a skirt everyday for the longest time and when she finally stood up to the men they finally accepted her wearing pants. So, I guess what could be taken out of this is that maybe if more Korean women stepped out of their gender rolls, Korea could move closer to equality.

    3 years ago
  16. I agree with you guys for this topic and Im korean thats been born and raised in America but i have experienced these sort of situations all the time from my relatives and other korean foreigners. In ways korea still goes through this system of ideas on how woman are suppose to act and look. When i was a lot younger i used to be extremely tomboyish and i dont know how many times others had told me that i should behave and act like a normal girl. I would be so furious that moments where i would wrestle with my sister for fun, my korean relatives would totally freak out and yell at me for not acting like a real woman. Ive been told several times “That is not how a girl should behave!” I still get comments about how i should look even though i dont consider myself a tomboy anymore my family would say stuff like “Wow im so glad you’re becoming more girly now and we were so worried about how boyish you used to be.” Also ive seen countless times (including my parents and mostly for the older generation) that parents or couples who are married would immediately change their relationship into a male dominant relationship where the husband would be the master of the family and no one could go against his will. Now i know this is changing but i still see it even today. Korea sometimes seem to be stuck in the old traditional ways of thinking of how woman and man are different and should behave accordingly by whats accepted.

    3 years ago
  17. Martina, people who don’t want to shake my hand happened to me in China as well! Not nice Chinese Manager refused to shake my hand, I just grabbed his hand and forced a handshake on him ^^ He looked like he was super-grossed out…I was SO upset!!

    3 years ago
  18. Twist your wrist and move it sideways, not pull. Learned it in a self defense class.

    3 years ago
    • Ren

      Or you could just use your other hand to dig your nails into their skin. *shrugs*
      Or spin towards their body ballroom dance style and kick ’em in the shin or elbow ’em in the gut. Well, that’s what I picture anyway, but idk if it’d work.. Looks cool in my head though. >_>

      3 years ago
      • If we’re talking ways to make people let go, the base of the thumbnail is VERY sensitive when pressed down…

        Or you could always just carry around a set of keys and position them like wolverine claws.

        3 years ago
  19. LOL keyboard warriors :’D

    I’m glad I’m not the only one felt uncomfortable with the weak simpering female leads vs. suave handsome male leads in dramas. One of the reasons why I can’t watch kdramas and opt to read the online synopsis lol ;___;

    But the workplace thing sounds so ridiculous, seriously. You’re right, this wouldn’t fly in Canada at all, the manager would get a big fat lawsuit and maybe a big fat lip from me if that ever occurred. And go Soozee! The dragging into the club thing sounds really scary… It’s bad enough girls get groped in places like these but to be taken into them against their will is pretty horrifying :(

    3 years ago
  20. I feel it prudent to mention that only 60 years ago, Korea was essentially a third-world country and far behind Japan and the West in technology and such. After the Korean War, they started to industrialize and have rapidly gained pace til today where they are competitive with the superpowers of the 20th century. So, while the US, UK, France, etc. have all had centuries to progress human rights and allow for generations to accept the changes, Korea has had only 60 years!!! It’s incredible they’ve come so far, but to expect the elder generation to be so open-minded and accepting of values opposite those they were raised with is a bit far-fetched (no matter how much I wish they would as well).

    Just thought it might be important to recognize this difference between Korea and other developed nations ^-^

    3 years ago
  21. My Korean friend told me that one of the Korean girls graduating with us from college landed a job with a Korean company in America. He said she was going to earn less than one of his friends who just graduated highschool and got a job there too.

    3 years ago
  22. Thank you guys for you hard work ♥ this kind of things (sexism) happends a lot in my country,Mexico (machismo :/ maybe you heard of it? ) But of course to all the people who are seeing this videos they need to know tht you have to see the positive side on things you need to look tho whole scenario, im not saying sexism is good (its not ! its not! ) im just saying people have to understand their culture :/

    3 years ago
  23. Ohhh, man. This is a touchy topic for me, especially since here in the US the Republican party has been spewing sexist diarrhea out of their mouths more and more lately, the media reaction to the Steubenville rape trial and then international incidents such as the rape of the med student in New Delhi or Malala Yousafzai’s shooting.

    Having grown up in an exceptional Chinese household with a strong, stubborn immigrant mother and only daughters, I believe the patriarchal attitude in Asia is still prevalent but at least waning. You’ll be hard-pressed to find gender-wide discussion about it though (it’s very hush hush). In Hong Kong, there is a term “see lai” for hardcore career-driven women who instantly turn into submissive housewives after marriage–not that being a housewife is a bad thing, but that it’s REALLY expected for a woman to just drop everything and take care of cooking/cleaning/childcare as that is her societal role.

    And there are support groups all over the place here in the US specifically for immigrant Asian women in abusive marriages–they tend not to leave them because leaving the marriage would bring shame to them and their family (and of course the preservation of face is more important than the woman’s well-being).

    I can’t watch Korean dramas due to the portrayal of the incompetent girl and the rich dominant boy theme (with outspoken undesirable bitch on the side lol) that seems to be so common, and the same goes for shows over here in the US (*COUGH*GameofThrones*COUGH* SORRY SIMON). And I can’t stand that it’s the female pop idols that receive outrage whenever they’re caught leaving the house of a male companion. Anyway, globally there’s still a sexism issue and I hope the world continues to progress in the right direction.

    3 years ago
  24. Wow I really like this TLDR! Well no… it kinda made me upset since im a girl and don’t like guys trying to dominate me. Ill be like you Martina and beat someone up if they ever try to drag me away. But anyways, what i enjoyed was the topic and how interesting it was. The sexism in S.Korea from what you guys are saying isn’t that bad compared to other countries…. but yeah sexism is everywhere. Martina! I think you should totally be blunt and tell them what you think! If you don’t, then nothing will ever change. Every person makes a difference! Martina and Simon FIGHTING! :D

    3 years ago
  25. A couple notes:
    1. I think the only people that count as “Nasties” ARE the nice ones. Abusing you guys with profane language just because you’re stating your opinion and your experiences… it’s ridiculously juvenile.
    2. I can’t tell you guys enough about how appalled I am by all this. When did this all begin? How can women be treated as sub-humans when we’re the ones who carry and bring EVERYONE into the world.
    3. Thank you for your courage and bravery in tackling tough and controversial topics such as this whole sexism business.
    I seriously develop more and more respect for you guys everyday.

    3 years ago
    • Amen!

      3 years ago
    • Towards your second point, I would definitely do research on the rise of Confucianism (Neo-Confucianism -ESPECIALLY during the Han Dynasty-/Mandate of Heaven/ etc.) in China and other Asian countries. It’s all apart of World History. Confucianism was used for both governmental structure and social rules. You can see the parallels, as families were largely patriarchal (father at the head of the house) and the emperor of the country was basically the father of the country. The way of thinking just assured that it was natural for woman to be subservient. I can’t explain it well myself since it’s just a longggg topic, but the answer is there. Confucianism still has a direct showing in China, Taiwan, Korea, and others.

      3 years ago
    • Where did it all begin? Briefly, it’s how we see ourselves as humans and how we socialize with one another; we love making social rules when we get the time. Sighs… I really recommend taking classes on female subjectivity, Confucianism, feminism/ sexism, gender etc. It is a really important subject matter, for both men and women, to understand how we categorize social values. Film can be really great in conveying these ideas. And of course keep talking about various social issues can definitely help in awareness. For example, talking to my friends who are LGBTQ there is one close friend who no longer wants to be referred to as “she”- or in consequence “he”, but rather gender neutral- by name or “they”. Difficult concept, but in Chinese for example there are no gender specific words, and in other cultures like India, there can be up to 5 genders and that classifies how people determine class-structure. Film I’d recommend: Water by Deepa Mehta, a Canadian who did a series on women in India. It’s deep and emotional, but worth the time.

      3 years ago
      • They’re not classic mandarin but 20th century innovations for the purpose of translating foreign, gender-specific nouns in books etc. There’s also written pronouns for God these days: 他 and 你 have the left 人 replaced by the left radical in 神. But point is, originally mandarin didn’t have 她 and 妳

        3 years ago
      • Have you guys ever heard of Spivak pronouns? They’re gender neutral, and super fun to use :) Gender neutral language is awesome. Language is such a powerful tool that affects so much of our collective morality, it’s absolutely astonishing to me that we as a society still accept and use language that was created by the patriarchy, for the patriarchy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spivak_pronoun

        3 years ago
      • Actually for ni there is male 你 and female 妳

        3 years ago
      • i speak bengali so there is no word for he or she, its the same for both :3
        well actually there is but i’ve never heard it being used

        also if you speak in third person (they) i guess it counts as gender neutral?

        3 years ago
      • Kat

        In Tagalog/Filipino, I think all of our pronouns are also gender neutral except for mom/dad, sister/brother, etc., but I agree, having gender neutral pronouns doesn’t necessarily remove sexism, though it is a step towards that.

        3 years ago
      • omg i fellow michigander! :D

        3 years ago
      • I’m in Washington state and we do that here also. Everyone is referred to as guys. I like that you’re at least trying to get students to use polite words. It might just work on some.

        3 years ago
      • It isn’t something that happens all over the US? I’m from Georgia and we use “guys” as gender nuetral a lot, I guess I don’t really know about outside of Georgia, but Michigan is pretty far away.

        3 years ago
        • If you look up the word in a dictionary you will find that guys can refer to anyone, so it is common English usage. BTW, I’m from deepest dark South GA.

          3 years ago
        • This is fascinating! I grew up in Indiana and I used ‘guys’ to address my group of friends but when I moved to Texas, I got a lot of flack from people when I used it. They told me that it was a ‘northern’ thing and that it sounded weird, especially if I was talking to a group of girls. I suppose they used ‘y’all’ in lieu of ‘guys’ which in its own way is gender neutral.

          3 years ago
        • Wow, I’ve lived in Texas for my whole 24 years of my life and I always use “guys” and no one says anything. People say it more often than not as well.

          3 years ago
        • I’ve lived in San Antonio for most of my life (born and raised), and I use “guys” as a plural noun regardless of gender too. I believe some people think that ALL Texans have a “Ya’ll” accent, because I only hear that accent when I am in the far east of texas and the traffic horror of the Dallas area. But I’ved used Ya’ll, however, even being born and raised here I can’t stand those east Texan ccents. On the sexism, I don’t see much of it. The only thing I can say is that I see some Hispanic girls looked down upon.

          3 years ago
        • What can I say? I used it and it got commented on. It wasn’t meant to be spiteful but more of a “Ha-ha! You’re a yankee!” kind of way. I made the switch to the insidious ‘y’all’ and settled for just my northern family making fun of me instead of all my co-workers and students.

          3 years ago
        • Hm, well, I guess whatever worked. I’m sorry you experienced something as annoying as that when you were here.

          3 years ago
        • Oh wow, that’s interesting. I was born in Texas, but I wasn’t there long enough to notice. I’m moving back there next year for college, so I’ll keep that in mind :)

          3 years ago
        • Way more people actually say guys than y’all, especially if you’re going to go to school in the DFW or Austin areas. You might hear a lot of y’alls if you go to Texas Tech, for example, because Lubbock is in West Texas and people from West Texas typically (not always) have somewhat heavier Texan accents. I’m not saying that people don’t say y’all all over Texas because they do, especially some of the older folks and kids from some of the more rural areas, but pretty much everyone says guys.

          3 years ago
        • Yeah. It happens in Massachusetts a lot too. I know I do it a lot… My English teacher uses Y’all though to get around it. Pretty interesting though how gender affects the English language heavily.

          3 years ago
      • I kinda agree with your dad. The neutral gender word “hen” can seem silly, since there obviously is a difference between men and women. There’s a reason for that male elite athletes run/jump/whatever faster than the female athletes, because men do have better genes for building muscles (and with that, I’m not saying girls CAN’T be strong too). This, however, does not justify any social crap bring brought up by a man or a woman – it shouldn’t be any difference in the way you’re treated because of your gender. It doesn’t justify Martina being denied shaking hands with a company’s representative, or any similar case on Simon’s part.
        I do see what you’re getting at though. For official papers, like lawsuits, etc, it could be very useful, so you can’t judge a person of his/her gender. But otherwise, I don’t really see the need for it. With this, I don’t want to imply that there is no sexism in Sweden (Because it surely is – I had a TEACHER telling my friend some sexist crap some month ago), I just can’t seem to find the word very useful or that it will actually make a change in the Swedish society.

        3 years ago
        • I don’t think that the differences between men and women are down to “socio-cultural” archetypes. I think it’s simply natural and I’m finding it hard nowadays to wonder why people seem to be pitting the sexes against one another instead of highlighting and appreciating the differences between the two (strengths and weaknesses).

          3 years ago
        • Yes, a small biological change, indeed. There’s no psychical difference whatsoever besides from the differences we, the society or others have put upon ourselves. If it’s a cultural relief meant to break a tradition of discrimination, then I fully understand that it is needed.
          Though, that we need a word for this change to happen is quite stupid. I would like to be treated as anyone else, without prejudices or sexism, and still be able to be called “hon” (her in swedish) instead of “hen” (the gender neutral word). This is perhaps hard to do without something to actually make a break through with. So well, I’m not perfectly content with it, but I see what you’re getting at and that it might be useful :)

          3 years ago
        • I don’t think a gender neutral word traps people in gender roles I mean, the word itself doesn’t. But it can be related to those issues. I doubt the word itself that makes such a difference – instead, it’s the sentence following that does it. Just the word “she” doesn’t put any obligations or expectations on me (personal opinion though), it’s what comes afterwards.
          The exception is, as you said, the people that doesn’t identify themselves with their born gender, or feels trapped in their body. For those people, it’s great. But in public, to merge that word with the entire society, I’m not so sure of. Especially since where the word might reduce prejudices and sexism in writing and official documents, it doesn’t stop anything from happening on a workplace, for instance being sexually harassed by your co-worker. Biologically, you’ll still be a women even if you refer to yourself as “hen” (well, not if you’ve swapped gender), and I think that’s were the problem is. In real life, where treatment based on genders happen.

          I feel for you though. I’ve only felt badly treated based on my gender a few times, but I don’t think I’ve felt limited by it. But, it might be because I simply don’t care what people think…? I kinda do things how I want, and if someone’s bothered by it, I take it as a sign of their narrow-mindedness on gender roles. However, I too get really frustrated when people put limitations on me because of my gender, but I don’t think the gender itself should suffer for it. I guess you could say I’m kinda proud of my gender? :)

          3 years ago
        • A valid point. An easy way to divide people is to create distinctive traits in each one of them. I subtly recall something I read about a study that took several boys with identical backgrounds, origins and growth, and divided them into two groups. Soon enough, the two groups started fighting, claiming that the “differences” between the two groups were to large to be overlooked. I believe the Nazis used the same method in segregating the Jews from the “average German Aryan” using a “we against them” approach.

          The means of having to use a gender neutral word is what I think is necessary. While it might help, I don’t think we should need that to stop creating and having stereotypes in society. Besides being a woman, I’m human too. I don’t see why this should limit me – when will I stop to be judged my gender when were all the same humans? The focus shouldn’t be on my gender, but who I am. But my gender is a part of who I am, and shouldn’t give me advantages or disadvantages. Therefore, I am still for addressing people by gender but I’m not against the gender valued word, just using as a complete replacement.

          In contrary, I don’t believe it’s the language itself, rather culture and people. While the culture might have influenced the language, I think that the main issue here is our own history and culture that create stereotypes for us, we’re basically used to treating women as inferior. The stereotypes linked together with a gender based word don’t come naturally – it is we who create the stereotypes, not the language.

          Yes, it truly is rewarding discussion since there is no real ‘winner’, just a comparison of opinions. I find that the most enjoyable, because I get to hear everything from a different perspective than my own, and compare and value them against my own, and perhaps reconsider a bit. So thank you for a great discussion :)

          3 years ago
      • I want a gender neutral pronoun…

        3 years ago
        • That sounds like someone speaking with the french accent, no offense hey!, but reading it out loud is heelarious xD

          3 years ago
  26. About the wrist-grab… I thought the same thing at first too, you know, “What the crap, that’s not romantic…”, haha. And I still am not a fan of the dragging part. But I have noticed among Koreans, grabbing the wrist instead of the hand (not just in dramas but in general) has been described as “manner hands” because it is less intimate and/or lessens skin contact. It’s the same way that people are praised for “manner hands” when they put their arm around someone for a picture but close their fist instead of laying their palm flat on the person’s shoulder or back. Just thought this was an interesting tidbit! :)

    Love Soozee’s story, hahaha! Anyway, I generally love Korean culture, but this is a rather unfortunate part of it. :( If they could balance out the 50s values with some good ol’ fairness, that would be great~.

    3 years ago
  27. The only experience i have felt here in Canada is being a girl and going to school for engineering. (only about 10% of the class is female…. if your lucky). Of course there is some males that don’t feel you should be in the field and should transfer to nursing, but I feel like a majority of them are respectful. However, the girls are not always treated poorly and I have heard of accounts of them getting special treatment and answers from professors because “they are girls”. I don’t feel this is acceptable either and we should all be treated equally regardless of sex, race, religion, etc..

    3 years ago
    • I had similar experiences as both a girl and woman in engineering in Canada. In school, no profs EVER gave me a break though, just the opposite most of the time because they assumed I had been let in because of a quota 9_9 and expected me to fail out eventually. Most of the guys in my class were great because they would rather have some girls than no girls because you’re with/in your class pretty much all the time for 5 years and it gets boring without the other sex to distract you. Mind you, these guys were sometimes the worst gossips, there were times I had to sit by myself (in a class of 300 – where?) because someone always thought I “liked” a guy if I should sit next to him or be left out of class events because I was cramping their hooligan all-guy style….. In the work place it was actually a lot worse. Engineers can be lonely guys and I got hit on A LOT A LOT. Like, A LOT. It’s funny how the extremely rare days when my group had to pull cables in the ceiling were always the days that I wore skirts. Sigh. As I climbed the corporate ladder I also hit the glass ceiling. When you’re a guy who’s forceful and cares about details – you’re a leader, when you do the same as a woman, you’re thought of as naggy. It’s the “mom syndrome”? It can be hard to keep weedling ego-maniacs to do their job if you can’t pull rank occasionally.

      My solution – find good allies, dress appropriately for your status (skirts and all), bring in cookies only for the secretaries (to get the good gossip to know what’s going on – let them distribute the treats), try to discipline subordinates quietly but never privately, keep contentious conversations via e-mail-rather than talking in person- copy others, and if your boss doesn’t support you, transfer to a different department or change jobs. Seriously, it’s not worth the hassle and you’ll wonder why you didn’t do it sooner. I think this works pretty well at both school and work.

      Cyber_3 – has a green belt in aiki-ju-jutsu, has never had to use it in the workplace but some days…..oh some days……

      3 years ago
      • Glad to hear from another female engineer and congrats on making it through!! I feel so far the gossip has been pretty much nothing, but that may be because I have a boyfriend who is in engineering with me (we are off the market for the whole “he likes her/she likes him gossip game XD ) I do agree with the whole “They will just drop out eventually” mentality and I find it quite annoying. Also with there being less females I find all the guys know who you are and you are more “on display” (ex. names for marks and stuff you see a girls name and you pretty much know who it is, since there is such a small pool). Sadly, I know this won’t be the end and that I will be facing it in the work place, so school will just help me prepare more for it! (fighting!) For all my presentations I will only wear a pencil skirt! hahaha it’s my way of saying YES I AM A FEMALE ENGINEER! DEAL WITH IT! :D

        3 years ago
        • Good for you! And no matter what you may think, always ALWAYS wear a skirt/dress to interviews. Not for the female advantage type reason (although that can’t hurt I guess), more that it says that you are powerful without feeling the need to look like a man. Plus, it helps the interviewer remember you over all the others.

          Cyber_3 – loves pencil skirts too *^.^*

          3 years ago
      • I have worked with male and female engineers before. I understand exactly where you are coming from. Funnily enough, because I worked in the engineering department at an HBCU there were a lot more females than would normally be in an engineering class, so the gender gap was not so huge. But I do remember the evenings of sitting around while the comp eng guys had their ‘ Warcraft’ evenings and there were maybe one or two other girls there, other than myself and they were the girlfriends of one of the males.

        3 years ago
        • Hahah! No, I don’t. I have been out of the College for yeeeears now.

          3 years ago
        • I’m American, and that was my experience in college (Computer Science) until I hit my junior year and had more international women in my classes. But I was also very very popular because I was single, not lesbian, and had many of the same interests. My freshman year there were only 6 women in the entire comp-sci class for my year.There were alot more in Engineering, but not in CS.

          I’ve also only worked with 3 other IT/Software Dev women in my career. Unfortunately (or fortunately) because I’m in and out of a warehouse and crawling underneath desks sometimes, no skirts for me. Not that i’m particularly sad, but as good as I am at my job it can be so very frustrating to sometimes to wonder if management (mostly, although there are some regular employees too) overlooks me because I’m female or if there is some shortcoming I’m unaware of. Cyber_3 how did you manage the glass ceiling?

          3 years ago
        • The sad/frustrating part about my class was that there were 4 other girls (in the class of 300) and I didn’t like ANY of them: 1) didn’t speak english, had a boyfriend in the class that just did all her work, 2) chose a new boytoy every term to do all her work then dropped him at the end of the term and faked sick for the exams, rinse repeat, 3)trustfund child who never showed up because she was too busy jetsetting, and 4) just a crazy stuck up biatch. Sigh. I did have lots of male friends but I was too scared to date someone in my class (my class was together for EVERY class for 4 years, all the time, what if I broke up with him? That could get nasty).

          The irony of my life though is that I didn’t want to marry an engineer because I thought that it was better for a relationship to have only 1 person with a high stress career and, when I married my husband he was an electrician. Now, he’s an engineer and I make casual wedding dresses – LOL!

          Cyber_3 – would still be an engineer except for the recession…..but I like pretty dresses and being my own boss too ^_^

          3 years ago
        • Ya, I have also heard that central Canada has a much better female to male ratio for engineering (although not close to 50/50). Not going to lie though! I have definitely become so much more of a “man” from engineering lol (must watch more of Martina’s cute tutorials!!!!) My boyfriend and our friends have got me addicted to the game “League of Legends” and I am now one of the few girls at those computer sit down evenings!

          3 years ago
        • Starcraft was the game back in my day……though I always got the slow compy in the basement…….damn you zerg!

          3 years ago
        • Haha my boyfriend loooooves Starcraft (I made him a StarCraft cake for his birthday here: http://puppichu.deviantart.com/art/Starcraft-Terran-Cake-324193393
          he insists that when we go to Korea he is watching a live game!) I find the game strategy is to difficult for me to understand! It’s intense to play! So I stick to League of Legends :P

          3 years ago
        • WOWZA! That is one fanf*ckingtastic cake! You must really be in love…..awwwwwww……so cute! My friend gave me a recipe for butterscotch cake with butterscotch fudge icing that I’m going to try to make for Easter….that’s about the level of my ambition – mad props on that cake – you could go into business!

          3 years ago
        • Awe thanks!! and yes we’ve been high school sweethearts for awhile now! ^.^ I want to make an EYK cake for myself sometime, hopefully I’l get it done and show simon and martina! :D also, Butterscotch is delicious!! :O such a good Easter treat!

          3 years ago
        • Well I am a dork so I have no shame in going in with the gaming guys and grabbing a console.

          When I was a little girl though, I remember not being allowed to play Nintendo, but was instead relegated to watching. My male best friend would prefer to play with his male cousin. * rolls eyes*

          3 years ago
        • Hahaha oh yes! I am such a dork too! I love playing video games with the boys! I’m also a huge cosplayer so I’m used to being looked at awkwardly in public! I have no shame! :P

          3 years ago
  28. 1) Soo Zee, you are a badass. Keep doin’ what you do.
    2) I have a very…adverse reaction to people suddenly grabbing me without my permission, so it would be interesting for somebody to try and do that to me. lol
    3) It’s sad that sexism is a thing, but as long as we continue to have open conversations without raging-mcragerson reactions, we can work to change that around the world.
    Great TL;DR guise! I hope that it can spark some intelligent conversation. lol

    3 years ago
  29. When watching korean dramas and movies I always stop for a sec when girls are dragged away by guys or they treat girls like stupid things that are meant to look cute. For someone who has been raised in a country where gender equality is an important matter, Korea’s treatment towards girls is rather annoying and it makes me irritated. I love Korea and I would very much like to live there, but in Sweden everyone is raised to think of each other as equals and schools and companies discuss it regularly in order to not accidentally offend each other. I am not saying discrimination is non-existent, you can see hints of it every day, but I fear that if I were to move to Korea, I would be seen as a crazy bitch for beating guys up all the time. ;)

    3 years ago
    • Ren

      Like they said, you’ll probably be fine if you don’t look Korean.

      3 years ago
  30. Martina! Showin’ some fire here!!! Niceah! My taekwondo sabomnim and kwanjanim said, “Western girls come to Korea and become Korean men.” To which I replied, “Yeah well if being a man is just about having a nice job and a great apartment then women are going to have to raise their expectations.” I think men and women are secure in gender roles here. It’s not a bad thing necessarily, it’s just different. Sometimes I wish I just knew what I was supposed to do as a woman and didn’t want anything more than to cook, clean and take care of a family.

    3 years ago
  31. Korea seems so nice in the hardly any drugs thing part and the safety and community!!
    i smell so much weed in my area while walking down the streets!! even in the city centre!! and in Uni……

    aaawww Martina!!! that’s not nice of those guys!! what the heck!!
    O_O what???? they can’t just drag girls in!! that’s crazy!!

    3 years ago
  32. Kk

    Wow yes! Thank you for talking about this. I’ve seen it all the time in K dramas (the wrist grabbing, the male dominance, the almost rape scene in Secret Garden… consent, anyone?!). I love watching Korean dramas, but the unchanging plot lines consistent with female subservience is getting so old so fast. Sometimes it makes me super frustrated and I have to stop watching the drama. When can we see a truly strong female character?

    3 years ago
  33. That dragging women into clubs are very scary. but what’s keeping them in? free booze? vip treatment? were they confined….

    3 years ago
  34. What about sporty women, because sometimes, they are like….well, I haven’t seen a drama/kpop idol who is a girl, and has muscle, is it because men hate it? Does that mean, if you are fit you won’t be liked? ° _ °

    3 years ago
    • What???? But that is crazy! MUSCLES ARE BEAUTIFUL ! Without training and sport, how are you supposed to have a good body without starving yourselves? Plus how would you deffend yourself? What would happen if there is too much wind, you would be flown away! You must tell your friends the dangers of not having muscles.
      Maybe I’m a bit exagerating, but, I play football and do cross country biking this year, and when I was growing up as a kid, I used to play Rugby with my father…and I managed to get boyfriends (but not asian….°_° noooooooooooo!)
      I hope that one day people will see the goods sides of women having muscles

      3 years ago
    • ewww

      3 years ago
    • so i find what sport truly depends… i am the only adult female at taekwondo and find that the attractive girls don’t try very hard and complain about sweating and the unattractive girls get much more into the sport. hiking – i’ve seen girls in pointy toed stilettos power up the mountain faster than their boyfriends and not even break a sweat. but to be really honest, no, sporty athletically built women aren’t truly deemed attractive. and strong opinionated women aren’t asked out as often either.

      3 years ago
  35. Sexism exists everywhere, Canada just doesn’t tolerate that type of behaviour in the workplace.

    3 years ago
  36. I just watched a North Korean refugee video on TED.com…

    It’s funny but I now realize that we tend to just say “Korea” when we mean “South Korea”. Does anyone know/have a theory about how we came to that ?

    (The video testimonial was quite moving by the way. Title is : “Hyeonseo Lee: My escape from North Korea”)

    EDIT: sorry about being off topic, it’s just that the new EYK video came just after I watched the video I just mentioned.

    One thing I try to do when talking about other cultures is to drill it into my head that Asian cultures are far removed from my own, just so I can see information and deal with it with a clear head. Only then can you hear about the sexism you speak of and understand it doesn’t mean the country is doomed!

    3 years ago
    • We tend to block out North Korea as a sense to try and make them realise they aren’t doing the right thing for their people. The United Nations keeps putting sanctions on North Korea to try and make them comply with international standards for human rights because they refuse to do it willingly. Here in the United States, our government refuses to recognise North Korea as a serious problem and many others have as well. The reason for this is because they have determined from all the empty threats that North Korea just wants to be accepted as a superpower. We refuse it though because of their human rights violations. To answer your question about why we started calling South Korea, “Korea,” is because we are trying to make people not think about North Korea.

      3 years ago
  37. Oh my god! I’m so glad you addressed this topic. I watch a lot of kdramas, and if I see one more guy wrist-grab and drag a girl anywhere, I just might scream. It even happens in dramas like Secret Garden where the girl is supposed to be all bad ass and strong, but the second the guy gets his hand on her wrist, she’s like a weak little bambi! Much as I love kdramas, this (clearly) drives me crazy.

    3 years ago
    • Ugh, seriously, I’m in the middle of an episode of That Winter, The Wind Blows and there’s a close-up shot of a wrist-grab with sweet, romantic music playing. In my head, I’m shouting, “Her hand is RIGHT there! RIGHT below her wrist!!! Why?!?!!” Good grief, that gesture is just so dominating and controlling, like I am a man and I will lead you where I want you to go. It totally kills the mood and pulls me right out of the moment *harumph*

      3 years ago
    • I liked KIng 2 Hearts but that was one of my biggest problems with it. I stopped watching it for awhile cause of that.

      3 years ago
      • meeeee too. i finally went back and finished it, but it took a long time.

        3 years ago
      • Really? I actually thought Ha Ji-won as Hang-ah in K2H was portrayed WAY better than Ra-Im (although I’m ship her and Joo won coz, Hyun Bin) And that her character in K2H was very consistent through the series… you must mean Secret Garden right?

        3 years ago
    • I hate that types of dramas but I don’t think secret garden is a good example of that behavior. I find Gil Ra Im really consistent as a strong woman character.

      3 years ago
      • I could be remembering wrong, and I will admit I couldn’t get through the whole drama, but I remember her being very passive in their relationship and never really feeling her attraction to Joo-won. It could be that that one bedroom scene blocked out my memory of any of their other interactions. I found that scene (in episode 13) to be very uncomfortable, played so romantically when it felt more like assault (I’m sure plenty of people will disagree, but the image of a man forcing his way into a woman’s room and then pinning her to her bed, ignoring her pleas for him to stop is just pushing it for me).

        3 years ago
    • this was the only thing i hated about city hunter!

      3 years ago
    • For most of Protect the Boss the lead woman remained in character. …most of it

      3 years ago
      • That was one of my favourite things about PtB. (Except the last couple episodes where she got all weepy.) Not only the main female lead, but even the second lead and the heroine’s best friend were confident, outspoken women that didn’t take any sh*t. Very, very rare in a kdrama. :)

        3 years ago
        • Yea it was def better than Secret Garden’s portrayal of a badass woman. I know that in the West women try to be strong and whatnot & cutesy is a sign of being naive but there are still the weaker types portrayed in films and tv. Every k-drama I’ve seen acts as though stronger type women don’t exist or aren’t desirable.

          3 years ago
      • That one is totally my favorite. :D

        3 years ago
  38. OMG! I would love to see a bouncer’s reaction when Soozee speaks english!!!

    3 years ago
  39. Hello nice nasties XD that cracked me up! don’t worry we are here for you guise! <3

    3 years ago
  40. 10 years ago during nursing school in the US, we were told to wear makep and look presentable to our patients by our FEMALE instructor. What the heck!? How does that contribute to patient care?

    3 years ago
    • Ivy

      I don’t think this is sexist, I think this is more about being presentable, if you take out the part about wearing make-up that is. It’s the same as telling a guy to shave and wear a suit. I don’t think telling someone to look professional is sexists and I generally think it’s a good professional move. People take you more seriously if you look presentable. It’s that whole saying about dressing for the job you want, not the job you have. Now if you were told to wear short skirts to show off your pretty legs… (points to whoever got the madmen reference)

      3 years ago
    • Ren

      Yeah. The makeup thing though is pretty ridiculous.

      3 years ago
    • It’s psycology at its best. Patients have a opinion/view on how a nurse should be. It can be small things like neat, care about yourself and such. This again will convey to your patients that you’re tide, you care about yourself/thus can take care of them as well.

      If I don’t remember quickly this goes into Caldini’s six principle of influence. Where this goes into the principle called liking: Where you get patients or in Natz comment above me parents to like you, by having the right image that they believe a person in your role should have.

      But to keep this short, I will just WANK off now. :p

      3 years ago
    • Heh, a few years ago we had a meeting with the female head of the education ministry here and she informed us that we should always wear heels, pearls and nice clothes so the students will admire how we look.

      In a way I understood it. She was coming from the old traditions. And to tell the truth my primary school aged students do notice when I wear new jewelry or shoes or even wear makeup. They tell me how nice I look. Does this mean that they admire me more and pay more attention… Maybe. I do also find that the students are drawn to the younger and prettier teachers. Also, parents tend to respect me more if I am dressed up and looking nice.

      Not that I wear heels every day. But when the officers come around checking the younger contract teachers make sure we have a pair of ‘appropriate’ shoes under the desk if we were wearing flats that day instead.

      3 years ago
    • It doesn’t. but somehow it gives comfort. I get nervous when the person attending to me looks young and untidy. same goes for guys.

      3 years ago